To People who Pirated Bishoujo Games on IRC

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#141
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
If the culture would get over this stupid phobia of sex... if you could just order them from Amazon... if you could just pick them up in the anime store in town... There would still be pirates (there are ALWAYS pirates) but there would be a lot more sales.

I agree with everything you said and fully think this nation, the U.S. is strange in it's views on sex. They have have sex education classes that barely teach people the parts of their own body and they hand out condoms to students in high school gym classes, some schools are installing (to much controversy) condom machines in the bathrooms, and yet they preach "just say no" to sex.

Is it any wonder these games might be loved by so many people but they are also something few would admit to purchasing under age possibilites aside for the moment? Yet too the under age to buy these games thing might be part of the whole "fetish" of handing out condoms to people that have "just say no to sex" printed on the wrapper, still not sure why they tried that but they did at a University one of my friends attended.

None of it makes any sense to me since honestly and personally I don't care when kids learn about these actions, since the sooner they learn the more likely they are to perhaps gain a sense of responibility for their actions.

In fact as far as I am concerned if they want to play them in game form to learn a little about these actions, that is fine since I would rather have a 10 year old learning it through these games then exploring it in real life on their own to find out the big 'secret' and the big need to keep it hidden, since we all know how inquisitive little children are especially about something that is obviously and openly kept hidden from them.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#142

Man, am I glad that I don’t live in the US, but in Europe, and more especially, Belgium, the country that nobody knows. (true in most cases)
Sex is explained in good detail at age 11 here in most schools. People talk more openly about it in general, and parents aren’t afraid of talking about it with their children.
That being said, there’s still enough misinformation. 80% of the teenagers believe that if you shower after having sex, you are safe and will not have AIDS. A good amount of girls believe that if they take the pill that they can’t get diseases which get carried over by sexual intercourse. Since I’m well educated on the subject of sex, I just laughed my ass off when I first heard it. But after that I find it sad.

Something you should never forget when discussing the world is that (most) people are dumb. Most people do things just to conform. Sad, but true.

#143

American sex phobia baffles me to no end, and I’m quite vocal about it…

you should SEE the looks on people’s faces when they hear that Brian and I have decided we have no problems with our future children playing bishoujo games like Horny Bunnies or Crescendo after a good sit-down talk or two about sex, but won’t let them play Grand Theft Auto until they’re at least 16…just to be clear, we DO have a problem with them playing bishoujo games like Virgin Roster or Sensei 2 or 3 without some serious discussion and the kids being age 16

we firmly believe violence is much worse than sex…this includes violent, non-consentual sex

#144
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Man, am I glad that I don't live in the US, but in Europe, and more especially, Belgium, the country that nobody knows. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] (true in most cases)

Something you should never forget when discussing the world is that (most) people are dumb. Most people do things just to conform. Sad, but true.

One of my professors was always found of saying you will never go broke underestimating human intelligence or overestimating human stupidity.

Well some sex education is better then others but most of what I remember involved films from about 10 years earlier, though I partly take that back there was one very detailed lesson but that was in a private high school, actually had cameras inside the female body at a certain point. Still you would never get that in a public school, at least none I have been too and I doubt any since the idiotic "no child left behind" creed.

I knew people, as unlikely as it sounds, that at the ages of 18 still thought it might be possible to spread all types of STD's from kissing only, granted some of them have probably lead very sheltered lives but the lack of education in school does not help.

Anyway, I think that sheltering also leads to the desire to explore which leads to people pirating these games instead of facing the wrath of parents who find the box, the mailing, the charge, whatever, of a kid they are "trying to protect" and in the process might actually be harming and in term causing harm to others if it does lead to pirating.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#145

I’ve been told today that you can’t do much in the US, but there are a lot of loopholes in their law.
I’ve also been told that teenagers are quite bored over there because they can’t do much, which is one of the factors of the US being the country with the most pre-adult pregnancy rates.
With saying that they can’t do much, I mean that they can’t drink alcohol or go out at discos or whatever before being 21, but at the same time they can drive cars starting 16. Totally bollocks.
So when they are bored they experiment, and combined with limited sex education that leads to pregnancy, I would guess…

#146

You want to hear something even stranger, there are or maybe not anymore but there were states that allowed people as young as 18 to serve liquor even though they could not drink it until 21 talk about nuts.

Part of the problem is places like discos were never that big here as far as I know and those that came seem to quickly go out of business or are held to the same curfews as bars which means there are lots of hours teenagers might be up but they have no where to go.

There are not a lot of places in some parts of this country that teenagers can go to, but I think it has more to do with the fact it is so hidden from the public eye that drives people to experiment. It is the idea of doing the forbidden which most kids and teenagers love to do since it is a form of rebellion against “the system”.

The old idea I was once taught I think holds here too, if you want someone to lose interest in anything place it in the spotlight, parade it around, make sure any question they have is answered at once, and within a few days no one will care anymore; however if you want someone to experiment in private, to demand answers,to never let an issue go, hide it from the public eye, make it forbidden, go out of your way to ignore most questions and give vague answers to those questions you do answer, bury it and the public will never let it go, and will try to find out the mystery on their own or with another, which in the case of sex we know might lead to teenage pregnancy in this some cases.

So once again it is hidden, people want to know about it, maybe “gain experience” to brag about or for real life so they pirate the games with perhaps the mistaken thought they are teaching tools since they might not honestly know until they play the first one. Then they play them like them and continue to pirate them since they are underage and it is “forbidden” knowledge.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#147

If you want to understand the historical background for American attitudes toward sex, look back to the colonization of the Puritans and other Calvinist religious groups. One of their fundamental beliefs was that all earthly pleasure was immoral. Sex, in particular, was something that could lead people into sin. It was practiced behind closed doors and only for the sake of procreation. The subject was never discussed in mixed company, particularly where it might ‘corrupt’ innocent children.

Although they represented only a fraction of the total immigrant population, Puritan values became an integral part of the American ethic. While separation of church and state was an underlying principle in government, the majority continued to embrace the puritanical values of their predecessors. These beliefs were/are constantly reinforced by families, schools, churches and the legal system. A more liberal attitude toward sex is still regarded by many as foreign and subversive.

That’s why it is so hard to discuss the virtues of b-games with those who have never experienced them first hand. They don’t realize how provincial their way of thinking is. They can’t imagine a society like Japan’s which accepts sexuality as a normal part of everyday life. They are still bound by the ideals of their fundamentalist Protestant heritage.

#148
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Although they represented only a fraction of the total immigrant population, Puritan values became an integral part of the American ethic. While separation of church and state was an underlying principle in government, the majority continued to embrace the puritanical values of their predecessors. These beliefs were/are constantly reinforced by families, schools, churches and the legal system. A more liberal attitude toward sex is still regarded by many as foreign and subversive.

And yet another way the Puritan Ethic harms society, at least in my opinion, not to mention public education which is in enough need of help without having anything adversely effect what can and cannot be taught without cries of "think of the children".

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#149
quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
you should SEE the looks on people's faces when they hear that Brian and I have decided we have no problems with our future children playing bishoujo games like Horny Bunnies or Crescendo after a good sit-down talk or two about sex, but won't let them play Grand Theft Auto until they're at least 16....just to be clear, we DO have a problem with them playing bishoujo games like Virgin Roster or Sensei 2 or 3 without some serious discussion and the kids being age 16

we firmly believe violence is much worse than sex...this includes violent, non-consentual sex

While I will agree with you that violence is much worse than sex, I still somewhat question that you mean what you said wholly literally. You mean you'd let, say, a 6-year old play b-games? Somehow I doubt this; I don't think they'd even really get it at that age. How old would the kid have to be?

#150
quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
we firmly believe violence is much worse than sex...this includes violent, non-consentual sex

Agreed. Berserk is far far worse than anything in Kango Schicyauzo 2. And yet Beserk is the widely available item.

(Caveat: 'worse' in terms of extreme content; I personally like Berserk far more than I do KS2.)

#151

I would be careful who you tell about that also ladypheonix. The current Republican administration would love to find some way to punish you for having a liberal attitude. Given the way she worded it I think she ment kids in the early to middle teens.

[This message has been edited by Laslow (edited 05-28-2004).]

#152
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
I've also been told that teenagers are quite bored over there because they can't do much, which is one of the factors of the US being the country with the most pre-adult pregnancy rates.
With saying that they can't do much, I mean that they can't drink alcohol or go out at discos or whatever before being 21, but at the same time they can drive cars starting 16. Totally bollocks.
So when they are bored they experiment, and combined with limited sex education that leads to pregnancy, I would guess...

Uh...I admit that I was a very strange weirdo at that age, but I don't remember any of this as being true. I mean, yeah, it is messed up all the stuff we can't do and in what order we become able to do it (...I can't rent a car until I'm 25? WTF?), this doesn't lead to boredom. There are chronically bored people out there, but it has nothing to do with not being able to go to a bar.

#153
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
PS. I wounder how many parents demonstrate the act of sex as loving parents for their children rather letting them find out in wild?

I think part of the problem is how we, or some of us are conditioned. To think of our parents having sex is rather a disgusting thought to many, and yet that is as I said just part of the conditioning that goes along with the whole, keep sex behind doors idea.

Perhaps in an ideal world they would be able to teach children that act the same as they teach children many other things in life.

quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
You mean you'd let, say, a 6-year old play b-games? Somehow I doubt this; I don't think they'd even really get it at that age. How old would the kid have to be?

You know I probably would let them play that young. The younger they start to learn the sooner you can teach responsibility along with the act and the more you drill that into them the more they are likely to remember that lesson. Like a second language the longer you wait to teach them about this, the longer until they find out, the harder it is to teach how something that can be so enjoyable must have responsibility with it, teach them young and they just might remember it when the time comes for their first time.

Then again I am considered "ultra-Liberal" on topics such as these so who knows if others would agree.

quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
we firmly believe violence is much worse than sex...this includes violent, non-consentual sex

I also tend to agree, but other then on this board I am in the minority when I mention that to others I speak with on the paradoxical nature of wanting to live while embracing violence and shunning the very act that brings new life into the world.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#154

Lots of people here have great healthy atittudes about sex. Too bad that if someone came out publically saying they let their kids play these games they would be labeled a pedophile and would most likely have their children taken away, in the US at least.

#155

If they could even find someone else that thought like them that would then allow them to have kids.

I truly dislike this closed-minded attitude toward sex. Since mine is so open-minded it is hard to stay quiet and harder not to be looked down on for having a liberal attitude toward these things.

#156

actually, the not wanting to watch your parents have sex is an ingrained instinctual response built into our genetics

we are genetically programmed to be adverse to having anything to do with family sexuality, in order to discourage in-breeding and thus a weakening of our DNA

woohoo, useless knowledge makes itself useful for once!!!

#157
quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
actually, the not wanting to watch your parents have sex is an ingrained instinctual response built into our genetics

we are genetically programmed to be adverse to having anything to do with family sexuality, in order to discourage in-breeding and thus a weakening of our DNA

woohoo, useless knowledge makes itself useful for once!!!

That is interesting I honestly did not know that, I just assumed it was the whole societal thing.

I can understand the view of it being instinctual I just never realized it was that way, I figured if it was ingrained it was an historical way of thinking for a very long time.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#158

and yes, i meant kids in their early to middle teens…maybe as young as 11 or so, since kids start having sex that young these days

I’m not saying we’re going to sit our kids down and make them play, but if they express an interest, then we don’t have a problem with it, as long as we sit down as a family and have an informative talk about sex and the responsibility that goes along with it first

#159
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
. Sex is intersting balance between what needed for survival -- too much or too little will kill you off.

The way society reacts to sex though I would never have thought to hear someone admit this (though I forgot those of us on this board seem and perhaps are a lot more liberal then a bulk of society); I had heard before somewhere a while ago, that love and sex are actually neccessary for a longer life, though perhaps not survival in the short term. Those without are said to die younger with more health problems then those with the love and sex as part of their life.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 05-28-2004).]

#160
quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
actually, the not wanting to watch your parents have sex is an ingrained instinctual response built into our genetics

we are genetically programmed to be adverse to having anything to do with family sexuality, in order to discourage in-breeding and thus a weakening of our DNA

woohoo, useless knowledge makes itself useful for once!!!

Sorry pheonix but someone fed you some bad info. It has nothing to do with our DNA. As for inbreeding, its not half as bad as the religious right says. For example take cousins. Before the last 50 years or so, marrying your cousin was considered normal. Supposedly the reason that this practice started getting discouraged is because it "weakend our DNA". However recent studies have proven that having children with your cousin has no negative effect on the offspring. As for parents, how do you explain the edipus complex? In fact it was quite common for family members to have sex in Roman society and other ancient civilizations.