Kinda shocked no one has brought up Tokimeki Memorial 4 around here. 
http://www.konami.jp/tokimeki4
Odds of American release? Well… let’s just say that Konami doesn’t love us…
Yeah, I’m still annoyed about that. If they wanted to release a test case game, to see if a new genre would work in a market it had traditionally never been succsessful in, you’d think they would realize the trap of releasing a bad test case game.
Yet you see this multiple times, someone will release something experimental, and rather than give it the time to polish that it needs, they instead release something broken and crappy. Then, when it fails, the company will conclude there’s no money to be made there, and give up.
I’m actually surprised none of the Tokimeki Memorial games were ever fully fan-translated (as far as I know) considering the somewhat cult following it has had.
Yea. From my understanding, what little information I’ve gathered from the creators, Brooktown High was rushed out in the last 30 days. Production was stalled due to people dropping out and/or misconception of what they could provide. Entire scripts were thrown away, because they turned out to be so terrible. Konami wanted the game out, so they released it halfass, with some elements thrown together in less than 48 hours. I hear it was one of the worst Backbone Entertainment titles to work on (all the pressure and problems), and that the company has practically blacklisted it and pretends it never existed.
I know it’s been attempted for TM1 and TM2 from time to time, but they always fall apart because the people involved lose interest. The popularity for Tokimeki isn’t as great as… say… Sakura Taisen for example, so it doesn’t generate that much fanfare. In the late 90’s Konami had seriously considered releasing a TM game in the US - but were officially blocked by Nintendo, SEGA, and Sony for each of the respective consoles. Since then Konami had given up on the idea, after watching the lackluster luck other companies were having with bgame-ish titles in America… then TM kinda died out in Japan itself, so they left it all alone for good. These days it’s most Beatmania and DDR and Metal Gear, with some Silent Hill or Castlevania or Contra thrown in to be different once in awhile.
The main problem, is that the company owns titles that would make more money. When you own Metal Gear and Castlevania, why give a hoot about Tokimeki Memorial? Selling 1 million copies is more important than selling 50000 copies. As the new Castlevania shows, Konami can get Hollywood class voice actors if they wanted… they’ve got the contact and resources to make the best damn TM translation English gamers could ever hope for - but would sales recover the investment? [u]Never[/u]. And it’s easier to just make another Contra anyways (not to mention more profitable).
Actually, I don’t know about that. Contra 4 was a DS game, and then the new one is downloadable only. That says (to me anyway) that C4 did OK, but not great. Also I’m pretty sure that the guys who made Contra 4 weren’t involved with the new one. I’d’ve heard about it. (Of course, that could just have been scheduling constraints … but then, that means they value what he’s working on more than Contra.)
Generally I thought Contra didn’t really do all that well - it’s firmly in the “games should bend you over a table” school of game design. Maximo as well - truly amazing game (sequel less so, but still good). But Maximo 3 got cancelled and the dev team responsible for the games got dissolved in a reorg at Capcom. (Of course, Demon’s Souls turns out to be exactly the opposite - sold out almost immediately. And in general, people are saying they think Nintendo’s “helper mode” will make it possible for devs to focus more on making things realy hard, knowing people can get assisted past really hard parts.)
What’s helped the chances of more heavily culturally-Japanese games is probably Atlus. They’ve been plugging away long enough that they eventually hit a sweet spot with Disgaea, then another one with Persona 3/FES/4 and people realized yes, these sorts of games do in fact sell. If ST5 is a smash hit, things could change pretty quickly.
Contra 4 sold over 250,000 units worldwide: that’s the same number that Castlevania: Order of Ecclesia sold. Best selling Castlevania for DS was Portrait of Ruin, which shipped out about 350,000 copies - and that’s considered a critical success by Konami. Contra 4 was a success - not the company’s biggest one mind you - but worthwhile for a Contra 5. Then again Rune Factory sold over 400,000 units worldwide… so there’s a lot to consider when dealing with the DS. 
Konami going download, is actually an experiment (and a successful one). As I’m sure you know, game developers have a major hate for game retail stores and been wanting to cut them out of the picture for the last decade or so. Those Wii downloads are using old technology under new paint (the AI and sound chips are all 1990 stuff) , so Konami isn’t spending on anything except the actual production of the game. Even the music and sprites are recycled. When you factor that there’s no spending for advertising, cart manufacturing, and bribing game stores for shelf space… Konami makes out big time (thus the $10 price tag).
Atlus and NIS are very niche companies. You could take the sales of EVERY Disgaea title made - sequels, remakes, and sidestories - from all over the world, and their total sales would just equal about 1.5 million copies. It’s true. While that goes to show that selling a million copies isn’t needed to be successful as a game company, it also reveals that they have differing views on how to market things. Konami wants over 200,000 sold for their portables, and probably manufacture about 250,000 carts from the start. Anything less is a failure (relatively speaking). For Atlus and NIS however, they probably manufacture half that number and would consider 100,000 an insane run away success.
The question is if TM4 would sell 200,000 units outside of Japan… I doubt that. 50,000 maybe - but not 200,000. You’re right: Sakura Taisen 5 is of such major interest, because it will reveal if such games can sell over the 200,000 mark. If ST5 completely sells out on release day, with preorders numbering into the tens of thousands, then it might cause some minds to change. But if only sells about 50,000 copies… or even 100,000 copies… well… everything remains the same.
For a console the golden mark is 1 million. For a handheld the golden mark is 250,000 (concerning the “big companies” of course - smaller ones obviously aim smaller). That’s why things like a Dragon Quest selling 4 million units is so mind boggling.
I dunno about total sales of all remakes and rereleases all over the world being 1.5M. Disgaea itself has been rereleased twice, and the PSP port of Disgaea 2 is out already. If you meant “excluding Japan” I could believe that, but I would be surprised if that were the actual grand total.
EDIT: There’s also that PSP Prinny game. I have no clue how many it sold, I don’t expect very many.
I do know that yeah, even though Disgaea is pretty big (it does have two sequels and a few ports) it isn’t nearly as big as (say) FF. But 1.5M seems a bit low to me, for 6 games, including Japanese sales. Unless 3 did really poorly.
Those are the reported numbers, so unless NIS is lying too keep their numbers low (and why would they do that; plus that be illegal), they’ve only sold that many. The entire Disgaea 1 franchise (the original PS, the PSP remake, the DS remake, etc) has sold a total of 400,000 worldwide. The entire Disgaea 2 franchise sold a total of 350,000 worldwide. The entire Disgaea 3 franchise sold a total of 250,000 worldwide. The entire Disgaea intellectual property (video gamewise; does not factor anime, toys, and whatnot) has sold 1.45 million units.
The data is consistent with sales records. Disgaea 1 for PS2 sold 50,000 copies on it’s first week in Japan. Disgaea 2 for PS2 sold 100,000 copies in it’s first week in Japan, but a much reduced 18,000 the second. Disgaea 3 for PS3 sold 50,000 copies in it’s first week in Japan, then 11,000 on the second. Remakes do not exceed sales of the originals. Western sales for Disgaea are significantly less than in Japan, about a third to half, except for Disgaea 3.
Disgaea is VERY niche title.
Konami is a massive company. Capcom is half that. NIS is a mere child. They make great titles and have massive talent, but they are not big leagues in terms of sales and resources. CAPCOM could theoretically buy their entire company 100 times over if NIS were willing to sell at fair price. I’d dare say the entire Street Fighter intellectual property alone is worth more than all of NIS and then some.
Hm, interesting. I knew they were small (of course they’re small, their production values would be a lot higher if they were big) … but I thought the original Disgaea was a bigger hit than it apparently was. But those numbers are still a bit off. 400K + 350K + 250K = 1M. Where’s the other 500K units? Certainly not in the Prinny PSP game … What other games are included?
Prinny only sold 70,000 units worldwide.
Remaining units are evidently various DLC sales (one download purchase counted as one unit), but no distinction is made for how many of each DLC was bought: 350,000 is the total number.
Rest are special editions and direct from manufacturer sales.
EDIT
On a side note, while I’m not allowed to reveal the data source I’m using, I can point you to [b]VGChartz[/b]. They keep numbers of game sales for the first 10 weeks, based on retail store reporting. Therefore their sales total isn’t exact (since it stops at week 10), but their weekly reports through those 10 are good. Here’s the section for [b]Disgaea[/b]. I know my data source uses them as one of their “fact checking” tools (cause if the numbers are too different, then something could be wrong with the info collecting).
I’ve found that VGCharts counts preorders in the 1st week sales. They’re also limited to (and based on the accuracy of) store chains that report sales. Something good to keep in mind. 
Dragon Quest 9 brings tears to my eyes. Western sales will probably be 1% that… only if they’re lucky. 
I seem to recall it being outsold by 50 Cent: Bulletproof, or maybe that was something else. Pretty hilarious, although rather sad.
Naw… that franchise only sold 2 million copies.
As far as Japan goes, DQ is one of the best selling series of all time. Only mega hits like Pokemon and Super Mario Brothers sell better. Considering that DQ will make 5 million sales entirely from one country says a lot. If a title sells 1 million copies across the entire globe, it’s considered a mega hit and instant sequel potential.
Enix made one hell of a brand loyalty in their country.
If DQ9 gets released in English next year, I’ll be one of the people buying it. (I like underdog series, and I have no illusions about being a mainstream gamer.)
That said, the third Tokimemo Girl’s Side game has been announced. For those who are interested, details here: http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment … ntendo-ds/
In regards to dating simulations in English, I’m glad that Summer Session exists, and that Shira Oka is still an on-going project. And since I’m a shoujo fanboy, I’m glad that Lucky Rabbit Reflex is still in development, and has its own blog now.
Actually, somehow I thought you were talking about DQ8, and I was referring to Western sales specifically (in reference to your comment about Western sales being 1%. Sorry for the confusion =P
What really boggles the mind with SE; it has two massive franchises that sell 2+ million in Japan alone. Too bad DQ struggles in the US in comparison to FF. FF has that “something” in the west that DQ doesn’t. But then, FF is probably one of the few franchises that is essentially massive in every country of release… and I’ll admit. If I was forced to choose between DQ and FF, FF would win without any thought necessary. DQ is great but FF is special.
Square Enix has been trying to figure out what makes DQ not as popular outside Japan, and what they can do to fix it. Honestly they were on the right path when they made DQ8 - but seem to have taken a step back with DQ9.
Seeing how Enix is the one who owns Square, if they had to pick between DQ and FF, I think it would be DQ that wins. Also a single FF title costs more to develop than a DQ title, so unless I’m mistaken a DQ title generally earns more profit than an FF title in the long haul. However FF is as much Square Enix as DQ is… so if things got that bad, I believe they’d drop every intellectual property they own except FF and DQ… and just stay with those two until bankruptcy. Because there was a time when both companies had to do exactly that.
DQ was created during a time when Enix was desperate for fresh ideas and threw a contest to hire people - it was never planned to be, just kinda happened to be a run of great luck (part of the prize was a trip to America, where Yuji Horii saw and fell in love with Wizardry… thus DQ was born). FF was going to be the last game Square ever made - hence the name Final Fantasy. Obviously both titles made money hand over fist, and kept them in business. Kinda ironic that a Final Fantasy would later cause Square to mere with Enix for a cash infusion (Spirits Within).
Kinda but not really. Final Fantasy was always Square’s big gun. Not big guns, big gun. They always did live or die by the success of Final Fantasy. Spirits Within was a AAA risk, just like pretty much every big FF title is. Only this time it blew up in their faces.
The end result, in terms of Square’s history as a business, is exactly what you would expect. They only have one real AAA title at a time, so it has to succeed. Then you would expect to see a run of successes, followed by an implosion (or near enough) on the first serious misfire. Look what happened to Majesco, two AAA failures in the same fiscal year nearly deep sixed the whole publishing outfit.
:shock: :o :twisted:
OMG! Please be true! Please be true!
This game just went from, “meh… when I feel like it” to "WHY DIDN’T I PREORDER!?" There was no sign of it in the advertising, so how could I have known? Oh it’s just like the real thing!!! :oops:
For those who are wondering why me and OLF are suddenly so genki: yandere
Goddamn Konami and their no importing English dating game policy! 
The yandere love in TM4 inspired me to call a friend of mine who works for Konami. I wanted to ask him what were the odds of TM4 seeing English release. I pretty much already knew the answer to it, but I’m a glutton for disappointment.
The conversation when this way and that way, but he pointed out this news release to me and said this:
So I asked what could be done to change their minds, and basically said I’d be wasting my time… but I asked him what if I had time to waste. His answer to that was:
He was being snippy.
I told him I was broke, so what other option was there? After some more… err… discussion… he finally broke down to say this much:
After that he said few more words and then hanged up.
Anyone know of a good Tokimeki Memorial mailing group with more than 50K active members?