Unofficial English Translations Discussion

Visual Novel Community Visual Novel Talk
#61

lol

These fanlation groups are just painting giant targets on themselves. Please excuse my use of the term, but it’s like they’re drama whores, having forums/sites showcasing their works in progress… piece-by-piece. Complete your translation, then make the drama whore site. That’s largely how the Seiken Densetsu 3 translation got completed, without interference from Squaresoft. When Square figured out it existed, the finished product had propagated on the Internet and was beyond their control to stop.

Or they could just spend that same energy, to make an original eroge. :stuck_out_tongue:

#62

Why? Translating is less risky as far as releasing something people want. They’re just taking a page out of hollywood and the like by playing it safe on that end and not trying to be original.

#63

Exactly. However, many groups probably need that attention to remain motivated. As with any ego-driven hobby, they lose interest without continual feedback.

Also, most groups probably feel that they’re untouchable, despite the flood of C&Ds. They aren’t fighting mega publishers here, so the likelihood of legal action is low.

#64

Since we’re on the topic of translations and C&D: One Manga and all the various other manga translation sites like it, are shutting down one-by-one.

Rawr. If you’re looking for more ground info on all this:

Japanese, U.S. Manga Publishers Unite To Fight Scanlations

Numerical superiority applies to more than twincest. :stuck_out_tongue:

#65

that has killed or neutered several manga hosting sites
onemanga just announced there are going down soon and mangatoshokan took down most of their licensed stuff

#66

Before anyone sympathizes, the owner of OneManga was trying to sell for for an eight figure price, so they were in it for the money. That’s going to draw negative attention from publishers (who’re now interested in digital distribution themselves).

#67

Onemanga is scum of the scanlation sites. It is because of sites like them that publishers are actually now so interested in scanlation hosting sites. They are worried that they are making profit while they do not. Onemanga should have disappeared long before this. They might not have actually been cracking down on scanlations. Or maybe they would have…either way we’ll now never know.

In regards to digital distribution they still plan to sell them. Maybe they will only be five dollars a volume instead of ten but this is actually more outlandish than before. I believe square-enix was thinking about doing a distribution of manga where they would offer the first Chapter for free download of each series and if you like it you buy anything that follows. I’m not a fan of selling per chapter and hope it is merely a free chapter thing before buying a volume. Even still though this is not much different than the current.

#68

More news has surfaced – there’s now a C&D notice for the planned translation of Air. (worksafe link: http://novelnews.net/2010/07/30/visual- … d-notices/ )

As a general rule, I don’t purchase story-driven games until an official or unofficial English version is released. For instance, I purchased To Heart 2 XR at a con earlier this year, since three story paths were translated. Also, I’ve been impressed by the unfinished English fan translation of Tokimemo Girl’s Side DS. And although there is no way to get the English text to work with an authentic import DS cart, I will save up money to import the original game in the next few weeks.

I’m quite aware that a fan translation of any game with more than a few lines of text will cause more than a few fans to illegally download the original. But the same is true for formal translations, and games originally released in English.

…That said, I’m not very inclined to buy products from companies who issue C&D requests. I’m especially not inclined when there are no clear plans for an official localization. So if I see products from Minori, Key/Visualart’s, and other companies for sale, I will probably remember their actions, and choose to buy something else. For me, no translation = no purchase.

#69

Key? I’m not really surprised–They’ve already been pretty hostile to the idea of releasing their games outside of Japan long before any of this happened. I mean, they were the jackasses that gave JAST the finger a few years back by requiring a one million dollar licensing fee for the rights to release Kanon, after all.

Come to think about it, aren’t all of these C&Ds coming from companies who’ve already expressed an unwillingness to see any of their games released in English from the very beginning?

#70

There is also the possibility of a possible discussion with mangagamer…but like Jast it will probably fall through. I’m sure though that the releases will get out regardless, it may take someone else to translate them but we will probably still see it eventually (the only thing the C&Ds are going to do is make more people pirate and put the fan translations into hiding. I believe in the near future we won’t see announcements of upcoming titles until they actually release the full patch. Or they will be going to unreachable sites.

In regards to some of these translation problems though does anyone think it might be an issue of respect for any of these companies (I know most of them are money loving whores) but perhaps companies would be more receptive if people asked if they could create a patch for a game and then put on the website where the patch is the information to legally buy it. Anyone think they might be more for it? If I remember correctly isn’t respect a huge thing in Japan? Anyone know if there has been any success from translators who have tried it this way? Just to see what happens if they do ask.

It’s disappointing that so many companies are resorting to C&Ds but to be honest everything is starting to crack down on piracy (which is I believe the main concern for many of these companies…that or they do not want foreigners buying the games and possibly getting “Nazi Now” on their ass).

#71

I don’t think piracy is the concern here. The main purpose of the C&Ds are twofold:

  • Prevent Rapelay-like incidents arising from foreigner exposure to eroge. The logic here is that if more eroge is translated, more foreigners will play them and more likelihood of this shit happening again. Not saying I think this is actually true, but I’m sure the companies do.
  • Protect their intellectual property* from losing licensing value. It is difficult to tell how much fan translations play a factor into licensing considerations, but if you’re licensing, saaaaay, Fate/stay Night, do you think it might do worse in English-speaking territories given that an English translation patch has been released? I think it would. As such, companies like JAST USA and MangaGamer may be less inclined to try and license titles like this than other titles; hence the property has lost some of its value as far as licensing goes. This is, as I see it, the most obvious reason to C&D translation projects especially in a market as microscopic as this one. Even if there’s no immediate intentions to pursue licensing, if you can kill a project by sending an email it might be best to do so just in case.

*yes, I know this is a loaded term but you know what I’m talking about

As for KEY, well, there’s only LB! and AIR really left anyway, given that most people aren’t likely to care about the spinoff games (TA, KW) given that they aren’t particularly great. AIR would probably be the most appropriate choice to license since it has a popular animated adaptation that might be able to sell the game a bit (worked for Shuffle! after all) which may explain why KEY C&D’d it (and not, say, any of the completed projects)

#72

I can see both sides here.

On the one hand, vast numbers of works are just unavailable outside of Japan, in any readily accessible form. Likely most of these will never be translated at all, so a fan translation can’t hurt the average title. Especially fan translating games from dead companies should be a close to harmless activity.

On the other hand, a particular game that has already had an unofficial patch available for an extendend length of time, is probably not terribly interesting as a legit translation. Since the patch isn’t sold with a legit copy, but rather released over the internet, realistically, most copies of the patch will be used with pirate copies of the game.

And if the patch has been available for a long time, most people who’d be interested in that title will have heard of the patch. So much of the demand for the title will have been sated by the patched game. Sure, some people will buy the game just to support the market, but most people who played the patched version are going to be a hard sell for the legit version.

If you’re ever going to be releasing your game abroad, then, you have to keep your market from being cannibalized before you get a crack at it. Otherwise, your game is much like a re-release before it’s even out the door.

#73

For Umineko.
7th expansion said yes.

#74

07th Expansion is a doujin circle, not a company, same with #define. 0verflow is probably a better example of this. Reportedly Navel also didn’t mind this sort of thing, although that should be considered strictly past tense as all Navel works are now potential MangaGamer licenses. Thankfully, Japanese companies being Japanese (with the associated doujin culture), the chances of them actually being cooperative are about a million times better than with - say, a Western company - but it’s still quite slim.

I agree with Ignosco’s earlier post about how targeting free doujin works would be a better approach, since there are many high-quality ones and you’re most likely to get permission from the original creator.

#75

Maybe, but they can still refuse.

After, targeting only free Doujin it’s not either a good idea.
I mean, i agree some are really fabulous… But most of the time they’re very “simple”, short and straight forward in the “Gameplay” (most of them are only Kinetic Novel).
I also agree on the fact that they’re more easy to translate and adapt in english because most of them use NScripter or kirkiri/KAG for Engine.Engine well know and easy to extract and inject script in it.

Now, let’s face the true.The main problem it’s not only the Rapelay incident, it’s not only the fact that some Japanese Eroge/VN Maker don’t want to see their works translated (Japan is very protectionist after all so)… but also the fact that the western market is not that big anyway for those type of game.
Only an handfull of die hard fan are present… Of course the market growing everyday, but still, in ten years only the JAST USA group is still here when all the other are dead (Otaku, Himyea, G-Collections was also “dead” because of CD-Bros going out of business).
And this don’t create confiance… Even is now seems a lot better, because of some Anime absed on VN getting a lot of success here and the good success of DLSite English… I think hey’re still not sure if making business here is a good idea.

#76

Partially true, but you wouldn’t actually translate stuff like this or this, in the same way that JAST/Mangagamer/fan translation groups probably wouldn’t even consider picking up half of the commercial eroges that are released each month. I can’t see the kinetic novel part as being a negative either. The overwhelming majority of free games are all-ages, and they quite often place story at the fore, while having a relatively diminished focus on character relationships, which in many cases increases the viability of a single route story.

#77

You can’t see hmmm?
I’m not playing VN for only reading.I’m playing VN because they are game, because they have gameplay.
if i want to read i take a good book or Manga or “Bande dessinÈe”, i put the music on, i go unto my bed and enjoy.(And since i’m french, i’ve got a lot of choice of book… too much even <.< )

I mean, a Kinetic Novel from time to time is not bad, but only Kinetic novel it’s not what i’m calling playing a game.
Even if VN, most of the time use the simple and classical multi-choice and multi-ending way, they’re still game.If you want to get a 100% CG, a 100% ending, you need to search, you need to think, you need to play.

Well, you see what i mean?

#78

Ah, I see what you mean, but it’s different to my approach. I play for the story above all other elements, so I always use a walkthrough so that I don’t have to worry about interrupting the story’s flow by having to reload and try various combinations of choices in order to unlock everything in the game. Sure, if I wanted to read something from start to finish without those difficulties I could read a book or manga, but the potential for branching storylines is only one of many things that appeals to me about the VN format. (There are also far too many eroges out there that I still need to play, so using a walkthrough also speeds up my clear times, although that’s just a side benefit.)

#79

As far as I understand it, the western “fans” (i.e. the targeted demographics of the fan translation groups) don’t share your POV, though.
In fact, it seems that to most western “gamers”, how much a computer or console software is a game is proportional on how much “button-smashing” you perform.

#80

QFT.

Case in point, when at the E3 I asked a Konami Rep, “why did you guys select, Otomedius Excellent, as your market experiment?”

His reply was, “it’s a shooter, why wouldn’t we have chosen it?”

:roll: