What about the *good* games?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Let me start off by saying this isn’t really meant as an insult or flame, nor is it directed in one company in general, but it’ll probably come off sounding really mean and bastardly. But I’m actually quite curious as to the status of the English bishoujo game industry.

Okay, there are games like Snow Drop, Tokimeki CHECK in!, X-Change, and such that have been officially translated into English. But really now, Sweet Basil, Guilty, and CROWD have never put out any really good games, and it really doesn’t make sense to translate them when there are a large number of other Japanese companies out there that have better art and stories. So then why? Even in the 1999/2000 years, there were a number of games that had better stores and graphics than both Tokimeki CHECK in! and Snow Drop. Snow Drop over Sense Off ~a sacred story in the wind~? What about games like CANVAS ~Sepia Iro no Motif~ (11/24/2000), Oyakusoku LOVE (06/29/2001), Moonlight ~Omoide no Hajimari~ (02/25/2000), and even Tasogare (02/09/2001)? Game makers like Leaf, Hayashi Gumi, Cocktail Soft, Clear are able to put much better graphics and stories (and even music) into their games. Why aren’t they being translated?

And what about the newer games. Hitozuma Hime Club was released in Japan on 11/15/2002. But why Se-ki-ra-ra, ZyX, and TRABULANCE? Their games lack in all sectors except weird sexual scenes. Why don’t the English bishoujo game companies partner up with some of the better Japanese game companies (or buy the licenses for the game or however it works; obviously I’m not very informed here)? So then what about the good games? There were a LOT of good games released in 2002. Wind -a breath of heart- had absolutely beautiful graphics and a really nice story, which, although was a little weird, kept me very interested. The music was great, too. D.C. ~Da-Capo~ was also released in 2002. Not only did it have really nice CG, but, like Wind -a breath of heart-, the music and story were very good too. Of course, there were a ton of other good games… Boku to Bokura no Natsu, Kaze NO Uta, Silvern ~Gin no Tsuki, Mayoi no Mori~, the two univ games (although univ ~Koi - Hajimaru yo~ was released in 2001, which I must say, surpassed all other GameCG in that year except perhaps Oyakusoku LOVE), Himawari no Saku Machi, Sekai no Subete, “Hello, world.”, Hitsuji-tachi no Yuuutsu, Nanairo ~Koi no Tenki Yohou~, Harumachi Kagerou, Masaru - Ashita no Yukinojo 2, Ebenbourg no Kaze, etc.
But one game really stands out in 2002, and that’s BALDR FORCE (11/01/2002). I have personally spent over 53 hours on the game. Sure, the CG is beautiful, and the music is nice, but it’s the story and the gameplay that really set the game apart from all others. I’ve played a lot of games, both English and Japanese, hentai and non-hentai, but no single game (that isn’t multiplayer) has even come close to holding my attention for that long. The game consists of numerous paths and endings to choose from, along with an actual action element. That’s what makes it unique. There are a ton of hentai games out there that are RPGs, but where are the action games? Sure, ASSAULT ARMOROID Angelio was action, but it doesn’t even come close to BALDR FORCE. BALDR FORCE has a lot of things many games seem to lack: fun. It’s fun moving around in your mech blowing things up. It’s fun being able to get new weapons and master them, while at the same time, moving through an extremely wonderful story that slowly unveils itself as you go through each character’s scenario. BALDR FORCE, starting off as a seemingly small game, starts to grow bigger and bigger as you go through different scenarios, improving your mech’s weapons and getting new ones.

So then I ask myself “why?” Why has such a wonderful game not been translated yet? Why are games with no plot that have less replay value than a dead rabbit being translated instead? BALDR FORCE is absolutely revolutionary in the hentai gaming world. There is no game like it. I just think it’s a shame, because although I can read quite a bit of Japanese, there are still a lot of things I don’t understand. A game like BALDR FORCE in English? Something I may not see for a few more years, I guess.

#2

Simple. The game you like doesn’t necessarily appeal to the mass. I’m sure all companies like to expand their markets. However, there are dream and reality.

#3

Yep as previously stated many times in thos forum… The english companies have to prove something to the mainstream japanese companies, if they can prove these games will sell over here… you will see a huge pick up in games over here, but until that happens… they gotta take who ever will give em a chance…

#4

Its not just a matter of picking the “best” games, its taking whatever licenses you can get and translating the best of what they have to offer or the most likely to succeed. Not always the best story, graphics or gameplay sells the best. Peach Princess posted in the past that X-Change 1 was their best seller for a long time, over games like Tokimeki, Snow Drop, Critical Point. X-Change was subpar when compared to these other games in almost every category. So why was it selling the best? Who knows, that just the way the market reacted, everyone has their theories and alot of them have been posted on the subject. Yet even as the #1 seller is still fell way below what a Japanese company would like to see. Until a very noticeable increase in sales comes I doubt a very noticeable increase in games will come. Although recently with G-Collections there is currently quite a splurge of new games in comparison to a year ago.

Also just for informations sake, according to Olf’s posts about sales rankings: Zyx, Crowd and Trabulance games frequent the Top 10 VERY often. So their must be something right with their games.

#5
quote:
Originally posted by UFG the Spoony Bard:
Let me start ... I guess.

Someone give me a Cliff Notes of his post.

#6
quote:
Originally posted by UFG the Spoony Bard:
Let me start off by saying this isn't really meant as an insult or flame, nor is it directed in one company in general, but it'll probably come off sounding really mean and bastardly. But I'm actually quite curious as to the status of the English bishoujo game industry.


There are a number of things that companies have to consider when taking up projects:

1. Nature & prefrence of the English speaking audience.

2. Time & cost needed for non ADV games.

3. Liason with Japanese comapnies.

4. Financial well-being (if it can afford to take a risk on a virgin market sector)

5. Techinical feasibility. Some game engines do not allow for translations short of re-writing everything.

Not a personal affront to you, but you have to understand that companies need to make $$$ to survive, they cannot invest in games based on your personal prefrence.

One thing I am interested if you don't mind answering, you mentioned "I can read quite a bit of Japanese, there are still a lot of things I don't understand"; I do not know your gague for "a lot" so I will take it at its literal meaning. - How do you know the game's story is good if you do not understand "a lot of things" in the game?

#7

[quote]
you mentioned “I can read quite a bit of Japanese, there are still a lot of things I don’t understand”; I do not know your gague for “a lot” so I will take it at its literal meaning. - How do you know the game’s story is good if you do not understand “a lot of things” in the game?

[quote]

What I think he means by not understanding "a lot" is that while he understands some of the main concepts of the story (the characters' mission, why the characters are fighting) but can't understand some of the in depth conversations that characters have or sentences that have lots of complex words. For example, describing a characters emotions with words bigger than happy or sad.

#8
quote:
Originally posted by UnknownSoul:
What I think he means by not understanding "a lot" is that while he understands some of the main concepts of the story (the characters' mission, why the characters are fighting) but can't understand some of the in depth conversations that characters have or sentences that have lots of complex words. For example, describing a characters emotions with words bigger than happy or sad.


Yep that's exactly what I thought as well, that's why I was interested in knowing how he arrived at the conclusion that the games he mentioned have good storylines w/o a firm grasp of Japanese. (mind you, I'm not doubting his credibility; just curious) Main concepts and characterisations in games esp. B. ones are generally just variants of a few commonly used themes, it's the expression of the general "concepts" that sets one story apart from another.

[This message has been edited by Angry Gamer (edited 08-05-2003).]

#9

Thanks for all of the replies. I’d also like to mention that BALDR FORCE, Wind -a breath of heart-, and D.C. ~Da-Capo~ are all extremely popular games. There is a LOT of Wind/D.C. stuff especially. A Wind -a breath of heart- OVA is coming out this winter, while D.C. already has an anime series running.

quote:
One thing I am interested if you don’t mind answering, you mentioned “I can read quite a bit of Japanese, there are still a lot of things I don’t understand”; I do not know your gague for “a lot” so I will take it at its literal meaning. - How do you know the game’s story is good if you do not understand “a lot of things” in the game?

BALDR FORCE uses a lot of kanji (compared to most other games) and military terms. Also, there are a number of really weird things they pull that you probably won’t find in a lot of other games. One thing I found really odd was the use of the furigana space to do some extra little things. For example, they have "d¬éq¬ë√å-H-√¨ (Denshitai yuurei) with ¬É¬è¬ÉC¬ÉA¬Å[¬Éh¬ÅE¬ÉS¬Å[¬ÉX¬Ég (Wired ghost) in the furigana space. Sometimes the characters will say denshitai yuurei, sometimes they will say wired ghost. Other than military terms, there are just a bunch of kanji (or kanji strings) I don’t know.

#10

ok I am going to take a quick stab at explaining in extreme laymen terms why the so-called GOOD games are not being translated

first and foremost, Japan’s bigger bishoujo game companies don’t NEED America’s business…they do just fine in their own country and the only thing that would prompt them to license their games for translation in America would be a huge demand for the games, which doesn’t exist right now, due to piracy and lack of knowledge about the genre

Second, the culture differences between America and Japan are staggering…Americans are prudes to the extreme, so a market with adult themes is labelled porn and considered taboo for the most part…also, because of this attitude, those who DO want the games in America (90% anyway) INSIST that these games be de-mosaiced (notice I do not say UNCENSORED), which creates a bunch of extra work for the companies in question…now why would they do this, in effect altering their own artistic vision, for a market that doesn’t exist at present time? the current market is that any given bishoujo game will sell about 100 copies in America to every 100,000 copies in Japan…probably not completely accurate figures, but close enough to give you an idea of the difference in demand

The state of the English bishoujo market as it stands today is that Peach Princess and others are taking whatever they can get, which is certainly not the best there is to offer, in an effort to bring this market to America and let people know the games are out there and are not pirate material available only for download

When the demand increases exponentially, THEN you will see the big-name games, and only then…until then, buy what is available, spread the word, and stop worrying about the damn mosaics (not directed at you specifically, but anyone who reads this post and feels strongly about their mosaics)

Just a side note: I use ‘America’ in a broad term in this post to mean English-translated, since it is the biggest English-speaking market to be broken

#11

UFG: Ok. Thanks for the recommendations, might try out when I clear out my backlog.

LadyPhoenix: That about sums things out But what I worry is not fledging popularity in English B-Games, rather whether these so called “good” games will ever make it out in English. It is my belief that as long as the American mindset of B-Games = Porn Games does not change, these games which emphasise on gameplay, plot & characterisations will never see daylight.

Judging how G-C is actively translating, I would venture to deduce that the genere is indeed gaining popularity albit not expotentially. Unfortunately, they seem to be moving in the direction of “lack in all sectors except weird sexual scenes” as UFG accurately puts it. Early releases that were “better” like Kana & Chain were replaced by games that emphasise more on the hentai element. I would stick my neck out to say that we can forget about getting these games we so loved in the forseeable future.

[This message has been edited by Angry Gamer (edited 08-06-2003).]

#12
quote:
Originally posted by Angry Gamer:
UFG: Ok. Thanks for the recommendations, might try out when I clear out my backlog.

LadyPhoenix: That about sums things out [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] But what I worry is not fledging popularity in English B-Games, rather whether these so called "good" games will ever make it out in English. It is my belief that as long as the American mindset of B-Games = Porn Games does not change, these games which emphasise on gameplay, plot & characterisations will never see daylight.

Judging how G-C is actively translating, I would venture to deduce that the genere is indeed gaining popularity albit not expotentially. Unfortunately, they seem to be moving in the direction of "lack in all sectors except weird sexual scenes" as UFG accurately puts it. Early releases that were "better" like Kana & Chain were replaced by games that emphasise more on the hentai element. I would stick my neck out to say that we can forget about getting these games we so loved in the forseeable future.

[This message has been edited by Angry Gamer (edited 08-06-2003).]

They released Kango 2 because it was a sequel. They probably released Tottemo Pheromone because it was part of a series and they wanted to see if they could get it to catch on (if a series catches on you've already got decent sales guaranteed for your sequel...witness the 'Final Fantasy' name).

You also forget Private Nurse.

#13
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
They released Kango 2 because it was a sequel. They probably released Tottemo Pheromone because it was part of a series and they wanted to see if they could get it to catch on (if a series catches on you've already got decent sales guaranteed for your sequel...witness the 'Final Fantasy' name).

You also forget Private Nurse.

Oops.. left out Private Nurse, my oversight; still I believe the trend is there. Let's look at recent G-C releases: in chrono order - tottemo, snesei, tsuki, bunny, konya, kango1, kango2, hitozuma. I have played all except hitozuma and I can confidently say NONE of them are known for good stories or gameplay and judgin from what little I heard, hitozuma is in the same league as well; Konya comes close, but still not there.

To date we know of a couple of series with sequels that sold well: X-Change, Kango, Viper - All are "lack in all sectors except weird sexual scenes" (UFG: sorry to quote you again ;-p ). What does this say about the Western prefrence?

I understand what you mean by having a few flagship products to ensure decent sales before branching out. My point of contention is that these attempts have already taken place and failed(?) in introducing gameplay-oriented games. Egs include RCY's Nocturnal, Himeya US's Desire/Eve and also the lack of any other non AVG since the Dragon Kinghts days. AFAIK, top acclaims by GC like Kana, Private or PP's TCI, Snowdrop don't sell as well as the true breed hentai games either.

I do really hope that BS sells well or we might never never see another "good" bishoujo game translated. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

#14

the problem with the weird sexual games selling is exactly what was said earlier: 90% of the American population that even knows these games exist see them as porn and nothing but; therefore, if they buy them, they are buying them for the sexual content, not the story or the gameplay

in fact, these people often see the bishoujo games with more story and more gameplay to be ‘too much effort to get to the sex’…i’ve had more than one boyfriend tell me that they like watching me play these games but don’t want to play them themselves because it’s 'too much effort’

this is what i mean by the cultural differences…Americans have a hard time seeing anything with adult content as anything other than porn…sex is taboo and naughty, unlike most of the rest of the world where it is accepted as a natural part of life

#15

Hello, you guys! I’m back from my long and fun pilgrimage to the home of another bishoujo-gamer, Unicron! Seem like the BBs has maanged to do well in this matter even without us D.

However, for now I’llmsjut answer oen thing…

quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
this is what i mean by the cultural differences…Americans have a hard time seeing anything with adult content as anything other than porn…sex is taboo and naughty, unlike most of the rest of the world where it is accepted as a natural part of life

shrughs I hardly think America is alone int ha tproblem. I think it might rather be a matter of the result of an younger generation growing up watching too much porn :3. and if that’s the case, america is not alone about being a country where people might have problems to reknogize these things that something else than porn… -_-.

#16

I don’t think it’s a problem of seeing to much porn, I think it’s more a problem of the religous zealots deciding what is ‘wholesome’ and what is not. Nudity isn’t a very big deal in most countries, but nudity in the US is seen as being evil by some elements… Often the elements with the strongest political voice…

Heck I like this type of game just because they are willing to show nudity, most US media shies away from showing nudity for a purpose and instead use nudity to entice viewers into believing that 3 sec ass shot or brief flash of breast may have been something worth the ‘ticket price’ for because you’ve always been told such things are naughty…

Personnally I wish mod makers would get more creative when it comes to adding mods with sexual content… Most any time I’ve ever seen someone add ‘adult’ content to a game it has been tacky Playboy or Penthouse style content rather than content with a purpose…

Now that I’ve ranted about that, I’m going to say that I do buy some games to explore concepts I don’t have the oppurtunity to explore in every day life, such as Secret Wives Club… But then again I buy HL or SW: KOTOR for the same basic reason, I’m not a Navy Seal or a Jedi Knight in real life so I use games to do things I otherwise couldn’t do… Some times those are sexual things other times they aren’t…

#17

I could be mistaken, but I’m fairly sure when G-collections first started up, they said they were a conglomeration of Japanese game makers working together to release their games in english. As such, the reason they’ve released the games they have would probably be because those are their best games.

Incidentally, with recent versions of windows being less localized, it’ll probably be easier for companies to bring English versions to market in the future… they don’t really need to reprogram them to get them to work on english systems, just translate them… and if there’s a market known about beforehand, it isn’t really terribly difficult to program a game to support different languages if that’s part of the original design… it’s only doing it as an afterthought that gets terribly difficult. (and yes, I know first hand… most of the games I’ve worked on have been localized to half a dozen different languages…)

#18

i had an idea about how to help spread awareness of bishoujo/hgames

in a way that might appeal to people interested in story more than just the sex pictures

write fanfiction and/or erotic stories based upon the better story oriented games, and post them where people can find them.
be sure to add a note or comment on where the background and characters came from and where you can buy the game that inspired it.

you have to be Very good at writing though, since the goal is to appeal to people who like to read erotic stores for the story as much as the sex

#19
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hello, you guys! I'm back from my long and fun pilgrimage to the home of another bishoujo-gamer, Unicron!

Isn't he one of the Transformers? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#20
quote:
Originally posted by Shadow99:
I don't think it's a problem of seeing to much porn, I think it's more a problem of the religous zealots deciding what is 'wholesome' and what is not. Nudity isn't a very big deal in most countries, but nudity in the US is seen as being evil by some elements... Often the elements with the strongest political voice...

I suppsoe that it depend son which coutry youa re talking about. Here in Sweden, people say that it's a big problem that the yoths nowadays get to learn about sex from porn and such more than anything else (and thus, they reason, people get a false image of what sex really is like), but I suppsoe that it's different in the US, if religion still has such a firm grep on things there...