I consider hardcore, like slave b.s., and s&m. The rest pretty much falls under “normal core” Then games like pia carrot I would say are soft core. By the way, Normal core is a new terminology
quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
Yes, what he said. Although for me, sometimes an excellent storyline can salvage mediocre art. An example?.................
.................
.................
.................
.................I don't have one.
I don't know, if the graphics have to be called mediocre, but still below the current state of the art.
In that case, "Eve Burst Error" is my standard-example of a B-game, that obviously has not the graphics, but the story as it's main appeal.
Back to the topic:
I am mostly looking forward to playing LMM. From all the Will-labels, I like the games from “Sweet Basil” best (that’s why I just ordered “Vie”). So, I think, I would still prefer softcore-titles, even though I also play the other ones as well.
In order to support the genre and to be able to judge the games correctly, I have at least give all of them a try (at least, as far as they are not translated in numbers, that I cannot afford to buy).
I think, it would be too simple to call any game “hardcore” if it contains brutish scenes. That lead to the (mis-)judgement of TCI as hardcore.
I think, you have at least to put into account, what intention this brutish scene has: Is the brutish act experienced as enjoyable or as a punishment for making a wrong decision?
Look at TCI: Did you enjoy the things that happened to Ayumi or would you rather have stepped in and beaten the crap out of the guys/gals that did these things to her (even, if it meant beating up your own character sometimes?)
Another kind if game, I would like to see (but that is really unlikely) are the Mahjongg games.
[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 09-30-2002).]
first of all, ido not consider TCI a hard title…
second, my opinion on hard versus soft (wow, that can be interpreted a few ways)…i agree with those that have said that both are good as long as the story is up to par…i thought chain had some VERY hardcore, brutish themes at times (in fact, i spent some time being highly disturbed), but it was an excellent game…i think snow drop was sweet and romantic, and it was an excellent game
i tend to accept a good deal more brutishness in simulation games, as long as there is a lot of choice in how much of whatever you do, a light and/or dark path if you will…for example, it seems like slave bazaar and dokusen can be pretty brutish, but you have choices about whether or not to be that way…i like simulations to have access to the more brutish aspects of sex, because they are there and a part of reality, and you should be free to choose as you wish, but just as you shouldn’t be forced into gooey sweet sex, you shouldn’t be forced into rape and torture either
and one more thought…i usually don’t determine my choice of game by how hardcore or softcore it is…to be honest, i choose story and the amount of choice and control over the story i have first
i am more likely to buy a brutish game in which there are four main story paths and thirty-six endings than i am to buy a game that is sweet and light but only has one story path and three endings
quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
i am more likely to buy a brutish game in which there are four main story paths and thirty-six endings than i am to buy a game that is sweet and light but only has one story path and three endings
I get your point.
Of cause, a game with more different paths, endings and influence of the player on the story has a higher replay-value. (Even, if it gets as frustrating, as "Snow Drop").
The one-way-games on the other hand have rather no replay-value at all, after they are played through. (Have you ever played "Eve Burst Error" or "Chain" a second time from scratch?)
quote:
Originally posted by tabris17:
They're still making sequels to the game? The book series is awesome but, I heard the game wasn't all that good.
Well, I don't know if the story of the gmae was good, but the environments sure was! I jsut loved walking around in Shadar Lorgoth, with dangers lurking everywhere... and so on. Felt kind of scary, actually.
About TCI, most seems to think of, and label TCI as a hardcore title. I'm not saying that I agree about that, but TCI does most certainly not feel like hardcore, so what should we rate it as, then? "Normal core" or what?
Second on brutish games, I do think mych like Our Goddess does [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. First and foremostly, I want the character to be able to be good/evil/something in between those, since that makes the game more realistic, in a way, and gives more freedom [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
(Have you ever played "Eve Burst Error" or "Chain" a second time from scratch?)
Oh, I'm sure that some people do that, jsut lÌke you might be re-reading a good book now and then [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].
i’ve actually played through Eve twice, although i just got chain recently and only had time to play through that once so far…but i have read most of my favorite book series about four times (if not more) and i have played each of the final fantasy games from 7 up at least 5 times each
i’m one of those people that likes to re-visit and re-experience good stories again and again and again
quote:
Originally posted by tabris17:
They're still making sequels to the game? The book series is awesome but, I heard the game wasn't all that good.
...uh, I was being facetious. I threw in the names of some of the books to try to emphasise that I was saying that the books had a good story but the (books') graphics sucked.
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
...uh, I was being facetious. I threw in the names of some of the books to try to emphasise that I was saying that the books had a good story but the (books') graphics sucked.
Oh, you mean the covers? Hmmm... most of them I thought were alright. I mean the artwork is appropiate for the content as fantasy art. There was actually a game that used the Unreal engine. It was based off the Wheel of Time but, the story doesn't follow the books. I have it but, with my last computer it never ran good. Never bothered to try it since. As for the book story its really good. I just wish he'd end the current plot line. It seems to be carrying on and on. I'd like him to pick up another plot line in the same world. How about a book on Artur Hawkwing's story or another incarnate of the Dragon Reborn?
First, sorry for my bad English.
Personnaly what disgust me the most in brutish title, are the fact that the brutality go always in the same way: the men dominate and the women are dominated.
Perhaps if there is a game where both gender brutalize and are brutalized, i could try it.
However i prefer softer game like Snow drop and Tokimeki check in.
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
About TCI, most seems to think of, and label TCI as a hardcore title. I'm not saying that I agree about that, but TCI does most certainly not feel like hardcore, so what should we rate it as, then? "Normal core" or what?
Hard to say since people's definitions of hardcore and softcore differ from person to person. (Or over time, it's odd watching "softcore" stuff from a few decades ago.) Hmm, I think general, a lot of lay people still consider "hardcore" as things showing penetration, so that may be why people have been classifying TCI as hardcore. (I don't really know, I just sit here throwing out alternate theorys to avoid doing real work...) Others base their classification on the amount of sex. Thus Kana is more softcore, and Snow Drop mainly because most people only get Keika at most...
quote:
Originally posted by ladyphoenix:
second, my opinion on hard versus soft (wow, that can be interpreted a few ways)...
You know, that's the kind of sentence my friends will sometimes use and then immediately realize that I'll be using it to tease them with for weeks! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by ekylo (edited 10-01-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by tabris17:
Oh, you mean the covers? Hmmm... most of them I thought were alright. I mean the artwork is appropiate for the content as fantasy art. There was actually a game that used the Unreal engine. It was based off the Wheel of Time but, the story doesn't follow the books. I have it but, with my last computer it never ran good. Never bothered to try it since. As for the book story its really good. I just wish he'd end the current plot line. It seems to be carrying on and on. I'd like him to pick up another plot line in the same world. How about a book on Artur Hawkwing's story or another incarnate of the Dragon Reborn?
No, I meant the books themselves. There ARE no pictures, see, and...oh, I give up!
[akane]Bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka[/akane]
[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 10-01-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
[akane]Bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakaba kabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka
bakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabakabaka[/akane]
*After much staring*
Baka-bakka.
[This message has been edited by Jeffrey (edited 10-01-2002).]
[This message has been edited by Jeffrey (edited 10-01-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by Groschat:
First, sorry for my bad English.Personnaly what disgust me the most in brutish title, are the fact that the brutality go always in the same way: the men dominate and the women are dominated.
Welcome!
Actually, that's not the way it is, at least not always. I asked a while ago if you could find any games where the male were the one who was being dominated... Let's see if I can find that old thread again...
But in most of the brutish games, then, yes, it is a male who have the dominating role, but I've seen some exceptations of that.
edit: this is the page where I asked the people here if they knew of any games where the main character was being dominated by someone. But I also said at that time that it didn't mattwer whenever the main character was a male or female, so in some of the games, the main character will be a woman dominated by one or more men, just like you said, but in soem gmaes, you're a man or woman dominated by other women. http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000862.html
[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 10-02-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
Hmm, I think general, a lot of lay people still consider "hardcore" as things showing penetration, so that may be why people have been classifying TCI as hardcore.
You have a point there.
I just recalled: The first criterion defining hardcore-pornography, I ever heard, was: "You can actually see, they are really doing it."
However, this definition would apply to almost all of the games, we are here talking about and thus make no difference at all.
On the other hand, our games deal with characters that are really meant to be cared for, so we simply took the distinguishing feature (brutishness) and used it to redefine the words "hardcore" and "softcore", really meaning tough-minded or tender-minded storylines.
Maybe, we shouldn't use those core-words at all and instead stick to the original names ('kichiku' for example?).
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Maybe, we shouldn't use those core-words at all and instead stick to the original names ('kichiku' for example?).
Perhaps... It's a better way of sorting the genres into various categories anyway, but the problem might be to remember exactly what is what... Besides, there are still doubt of if some gmaes are kichiku or not; Kumiko said that Water Closet was such a game, but some people here disagreed about that.
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Perhaps... It's a better way of sorting the genres into various categories anyway, but the problem might be to remember exactly what is what...
Well, maybe, we should ask the others with much more japanese-gaming experience (Lamuness, Kagami, ...) about the correct terminology?
For example, "kichiku" was not directly related to "brutish", but quite more to "strange fetish".
Most of the brutish games usually have "INSULT" as part of their type description.
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Kumiko said that Water Closet was such a game, but some people here disagreed about that.
Well, maybe because they exactly misunderstood "kichiku" as "brutish without regrets"?
I think, it would be very odd, to deny, "Water Closet" has quite a lot of strange fetishes in it and the least strange of them was "bondange".
… in that case, the misunderstanding about the word “kichiku” was completely my mistake.
(Maybe, I have today my apologetic day…)
[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 10-02-2002).]