What people here would perfer

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#41

I wouldn’t worry too much about it Unicorn-san. We all make mistakes and it’s better to find out you were mistaken then to go out and accidentally spread misinformation…

That’s why I always think it’s helpful to try and explain what you think a term means or how you use a particular term. It helps everyone understand where you’re coming from in a discussion. I learned that after I’ve sat through meetings where people are arguing with each other but they both are arguing the same side, just with different terminology. (And people at work wonder why I hate meetings… )

#42
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
You have a point there.
I just recalled: The first criterion defining hardcore-pornography, I ever heard, was: "You can actually see, they are really doing it."
However, this definition would apply to almost all of the games, we are here talking about and thus make no difference at all.

On the other hand, our games deal with characters that are really meant to be cared for, so we simply took the distinguishing feature (brutishness) and used it to redefine the words "hardcore" and "softcore", really meaning tough-minded or tender-minded storylines.

Maybe, we shouldn't use those core-words at all and instead stick to the original names ('kichiku' for example?).

I would have to agree with you on this, Unicorn. It seems to me that harcore/softcore are ill defined terms, and so arguing over their usage is a semantic debate without much point.

#43

Well, it seems like int he end, it alld epend son aperson’s pÂoint of view if the game could be called brutish or not…

So, it might indeed be a good idea to start using the Japanese words instead . After all, I think most of us could tell curious newbies about it, and if a debatte starts because of soem disagreements, then we have lots of people here who could use their knowledge to straight things out.

Hmm, ryoujoku… I’ve heard that word before, I think… Isn’t that word a part of the title of one of Crowd’s games?

#44
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
So, it might indeed be a good idea to start using the Japanese words instead [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. After all, I think most of us could tell curious newbies about it, and if a debatte starts because of soem disagreements, then we have lots of people here who could use their knowledge to straight things out.

IF?!? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

quote:

Hmm, ryoujoku... I've heard that word before, I think... Isn't that word a part of the title of one of Crowd's games?

Sounds familiar as well. But so are half the words I run across in Japanese. (Are you in a rush today or something Spec-san? Lots of typing errors in your post. Just teasing [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] )

#45
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
So, it might indeed be a good idea to start using the Japanese words instead [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. After all, I think most of us could tell curious newbies about it, and if a debatte starts because of soem disagreements, then we have lots of people here who could use their knowledge to straight things out.

Hmm, ryoujoku... I've heard that word before, I think... Isn't that word a part of the title of one of Crowd's games?


Spectator, what you are proposing is called fanboy talk and it should be avoided. These Japanese/Chinese words have no place in the English language and only serve to confuse the reader. Are you somehow implying that the English language is undeveloped that it needs to borrow from another? It doesn't. And if the speaker uses English terms translated from Japanese terms, at least he will know what he is talking about. Though you don't intend to spread misinformation, those words will be misused by the masses.

To answer your other question, I don't know. But there's a game by Ailsoft called Ryoujoku ~suki desu ka~. Just by looking at the title, I wonder if women harbor a pathological craving for abuse by men.

#46
quote:
Originally posted by gaogao:
Spectator, what you are proposing is called fanboy talk and it should be avoided. These Japanese/Chinese words have no place in the English language and only serve to confuse the reader. Are you somehow implying that the English language is undeveloped that it needs to borrow from another? It doesn't. And if the speaker uses English terms translated from Japanese terms, at least he will know what he is talking about. Though you don't intend to spread misinformation, those words will be misused by the masses.

Um, English has a bad habit of borrowing and integrated terms from other languages instead of creating a new term. So it's not just "fanboy" talk. And we weren't particularly talking about English terms translated from Japanese terms. We were talking about the English terms "hardcore" and "softcore" which is opened to interpetation based on the person. So he was proposing the use of Japanese descriptive terms for the games instead so we didn't end up with arguments as to whether a thing was "hardcore" or "softcore" or any confusion of that sort.

#47
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, ryoujoku... I've heard that word before, I think... Isn't that word a part of the title of one of Crowd's games?

The game, you thought of was (most probably):

quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
2.Fukushuu -Ryoujoku no Yaiba-
Vengeance: The Blade of Insult

(Taken from the thread "Next CROWD game Peach Princess should take?")


#48
quote:
Originally posted by gaogao:
These Japanese/Chinese words have no place in the English language and only serve to confuse the reader. Are you somehow implying that the English language is undeveloped that it needs to borrow from another? It doesn't. And if the speaker uses English terms translated from Japanese terms, at least he will know what he is talking about.

It is not the idea, the english is undeveloped, but some japanese words have no matching translation in any western language.

A language reflects the mentatlity of the people, that made and use it. Some common thoughts of the japanese people have no place in the western mentality (and that is one of the reasons, why bishoujo is here not as popular, as it deserves to be).

If you take this into account, English is not "undeveloped". It serves it's purposes very well, but in order to adopt ideas, foreign to the mentality of the people using the language, you have two ways of dealing with it:
a) define new words to the language
b) adopt words from another language, that already describe these ideas

Alternative c) would be to use descriptions of the meaning of the missing words. However, this would lead to using complese clauses instead of a single word and thus make sentences really long (and repetitive).

#49
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
Um, English has a bad habit of borrowing and integrated terms from other languages instead of creating a new term.

I dunno, if that's a bad habit.
I mean: all living languages do this. In fact, even the japanese language did this and writes these words in Katakana.
Examples:
"Biludingu" = building
"Libingu" = living room
"Alubaito" = Arbeit (yes! Its originally german!)

#50

As others have said, we’d simply use those words because that the english word wouldn’t really catch the meaning of the word… Unicorn is right, languages are often like that. There will always be meanings that’d be difficult to translate in anothr language, and fitting as the word may be it’d still not be a truly correct counterpart of the original word… For example, I’m not really sure how I’d translate “Are you pulling my leg?” into swedish… I could translate it as “Are you trying to fool me?” or soemting like that, but it’d still not really catch the true meaning of the english part…

#51
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
IF?!? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img])

Argument of one kind or another about a certaing mae/gmaes and the correct category it would fit in would flare up now and then, and the only one who could calm down the arguments with their words might be the experts [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]. Of course, they might just make it worse [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

quote:
Sounds familiar as well. But so are half the words I run across in Japanese. (Are you in a rush today or something Spec-san? Lots of typing errors in your post. Just teasing [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] )

Uhh... Well, yeah, I was using a computer a the library at that time, and you only get to use those for a limited amount of time, unfortunately enough... I've been "working" at an elementary school for a couple of days this week. *phew* Really, how much energy does those kids really have!? They wanted me ro run around and chase them, play with them every minute, or so it seemed. Anyway, because of that I'll have to use the computer at the library for this and the next week, or so it seems. So don't except me to show up all too ofte here for this and the next week [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img].

#52
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
The game, you thought of was (most probably)

[quote] Originally posted by Nobody:
[b] 2.Fukushuu -Ryoujoku no Yaiba-
Vengeance: The Blade of Insult


(Taken from the thread "Next CROWD game Peach Princess should take?")

[/b] [/quote]

Ah, you're right [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. So, looks like Ryoujoku means insult in this case... Wonder what the translation of the title into english would be like if PP decided to take this game. Probably it would just be "Vengeance"... Or perhaps Vengeance II.

#53
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
I dunno, if that's a bad habit.

Okay, maybe not a bad habit. A reflex response from my ongoing argument with friends over what I feel is the silliness inherent in the English language. (And for the record, English is my native language.) That and I was also irritated by
gaogao-san's post in general, which I felt implied a sense of superiority when none was warranted. (Okay I'm human and I've more than once admitted that sometimes people here have rubbed me the wrong way. Hasn't killed anyone yet...)

quote:

"Alubaito" = Arbeit (yes! Its originally german!)

Heh, yes, I do remember that from my Japanese lessons. For some reason, my classmates couldn't understand what a German word was doing in the Japanese language. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
(And one did ask why the German word was borrowed instead of the English one, as if Japanese was only allowed to incorporate English...)

#54
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
Heh, yes, I do remember that from my Japanese lessons. For some reason, my classmates couldn't understand what a German word was doing in the Japanese language. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
(And one did ask why the German word was borrowed instead of the English one, as if Japanese was only allowed to incorporate English...)

The odd thing about "Alubaito" is, that I don't think, they needed it at all.
They also have "hataraku", "shigoto" as well as "shotsugyo". These words together cover all the meanings, "Arbeit" can have in german...

#55

‘Anime’ is a French word and it’s in the Japanese language repertoire; ‘Castella’ is a portuguese word and it’s also in the Japanese language repertoire.

#56