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Say, does praising a game (I ADORE Enzai!!) mean that I do not have to see what the game is like in the truth? I don't let my personal tastes overcome an objective point of view on a product. :P
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Most of the people here praise games on story, not sexual content. I guess I misunderstood your praise...[/B]
And do you think I adore something only on a matter of sex scenes???
I adore Enzai for its dark atmospheres, as I said before. And also for the detailed psychology of its twisted characters.
NEVERTHELESS, Enzai STILL has a lot of gratuitous and totally unnecessary S/M sex scenes, and as much as I like them, they sometimes look a bit out of plot to me. So said, Teikokusensenki doesn't have this kind of thing (mostly). That's why I praise Teikokusensenki more even though my favorite Langmaor game is Enzai.
A proof to what I sustain with my comment is simple to find: ask the typical fangirl about Enzai. You'll find a lot of girls liking that game even if they never understood the plot. Now ask those same fangirls about Teikokusensenki. No one of them has ever played it -because unlike Enzai, that game can be played and appreciated only if following the story.
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Originally posted by Smoo:
But how did Peach Princess get Yaoi titles in their midsts? Weren't there better titles out there? Like more catgirl themese? Bunny girls? Another Gloria? Another Private nurse like game? The Y club? Since yaoi is coming out I want equality and yuri should come soon >_>
Peach Princess is attempting to develop a broader base. If they can release more games and show they're profitable, then they'll be in a better position to do other games. The key here is that yaoi games appeal to a group of people that a) is largely distinct from the people into normal b-games, and b) are generally rabid fans.
Seriously. I staff an anime convention in the video rooms, and late at night they show adult anime; the fangirls who are into yaoi are really into yaoi. (It was hilarious; many of them tried to trick guy friends of theirs into going into the rooms.)
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Originally posted by Jason4:
[B] You aren't whistling dixie. I was at AX a couple of years ago and at this one booth, a man was yelling into a megaphone: "YAOI!! GETTCHER YAOI HERE!" Yeah, the same voice guys use to sell popcorn and bobble-head dolls at ball games. And to make the scene more humorus, all these fangirls came out of the woodwork and flooded the booth and eventually the yaoi section of the booth was a crowd of fangirls 5 deep.
Such scenes happen to me when I go out at the huge comics-thingies with my female friends too. When they find a certain yaoi manga or artbook, they can squeal so loud that it's as though they turned 12 years old or so. It is mostly amusing to see. Even if sometimes it makes me feel embarassed. XD
So yup, yaoi fangirls REALLY are big addicted fangirls. That might do good for the brand new market of BoysLove games here. The only problem is that girls here usually aren't used to play dating-sims like males are -I tried to have some friends at my university play Silver Chaos, and even though they did got a wide number of endings for that game, they never asked me for other games, meaning that even if they liked it they wouldn't, like, buy them or something. They said "it isn't animated enough, the pictures are static". Such a different mind-setting compared to the japanese. So let's hope those BL games will sell good here anyway.
Just to make this post even longer, I would also like to add some things in defense of BL games. Boys, you already have A LOT of hentai games to play - translated in english, featuring videos, animations, and whateverelse. We females never had such thing -only few BL games, all in japanese, that don't feature animated intros or those things I often see when I play H-games. So don't you complain about "more catgirls&yuri" wehn you hear of BL games coming in the USA, as we poor girls had absolutely nothing for us un the market till now.
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Originally posted by Jason4:
I think it's a smart business move by PeaPri by offering these games. As for the people (like me) who are looking forward to more "normal" B-games, I guess we'll have to put up with the glacial pace of production (as usual). Either way, as long as PeaPri stays in business, then that's a good thing.
To use an analogy, it's like seeing your favorite restaurant expand the menu to attract new customers. It usually doesn't enhance your dining experience. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
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Originally posted by perigee:
I don't dispute what you're saying, but I have a different take on how it may affect b-game fans. Yaoi business may be good for PP's bottom line, but it may mean diverting resources from bishoujo games. In theory PP would hire more people and release more games for everyone, but it doesn't always work that way.To use an analogy, it's like seeing your favorite restaurant expand the menu to attract new customers. It usually doesn't enhance your dining experience. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
Mister, please read the last paragraph of my posting, placed just over yours.
EDIT: oh well here it is, quoting myself:
"Just to make this post even longer, I would also like to add some things in defense of BL games. Boys, you already have A LOT of hentai games to play - translated in english, featuring videos, animations, and whateverelse. We females never had such thing -only few BL games, all in japanese, that don't feature animated intros or those things I often see when I play H-games. So don't you complain about "more catgirls&yuri" when you hear of BL games coming in the USA, as we poor girls had absolutely nothing for us in the market till now. "
[This message has been edited by Lun (edited 10-06-2005).]
[This message has been edited by Lun (edited 10-06-2005).]
Yes, ma’am. It’s boys like us buying our b-games over the years that helped make Peach Princess successful enough to release your y-games. Now we’ll see if your sales beat ours.
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Originally posted by perigee:
Yes, ma'am. It's boys like us buying our b-games over the years that helped make Peach Princess successful enough to release your y-games. Now we'll see if your sales beat ours.
You don't understand my point.
Of course if hentai games weren't so well-sold, maybe the BL games wouldn't be sold either.
But this has nothing to do with the question. My point was trying to explain to male H-fans who are disappointed by the coming of BL games in the USA that they should have nothing to complain since we poor girls could never have the chance to see those games imported like they had instead. A girl has the right to play her own erotic videogames too if she wants to, and males who complain about that show a narrowminded view, at last in my opinion. Do you want to be the only one having fun, while we girls can't?
(Secondarily, I used to play H-games before I even knew that BL games existed, so you can't say that I have something against H-games, which sometimes I do like. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] )
I understood your point. I just don’t agree that you poor girls have a right to play your own erotic videogames because you’ve gone without for too long. None of us has a right to see the market satisfy our particular desires. Want? Be willing to buy? Yes. Have a right to a paticular product? No. The simple fact is that yoai-lovers, like yuri-lovers, have been too small a segment to create their own market. The majority of fans seem to prefer heterosexually themed erogames. I assume that includes some women, as well. This guy is narrow minded enough to support those products he’s interested in and ignore the rest. That’s the essence of good consumerism.
You’ll have to find a different term to describe same-sex games. Hentai applies to anything of an explictly sexual nature.
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The majority of fans seem to prefer
... That's not really possible to say if the other option has never been available, though. It may turn out to be true, but you won't know that until you've OFFERED it to the majority of fans and see if they go for it or not.
That’s true, of course. By the same argument there could be a huge, pent-up demand for bestiality games, and it’s only the fact that we haven’t seen any released yet that’s hiding it. I don’t believe that for a minute. I’m saying the jury is still out.
I want to make it clear that I’m not philosophically opposed to yaoi games. I think people should be able to enjoy whatever form of entertainment turns them on. On the other hand, I am somewhat concerned about public relations fallout. Erogames already have acquired a bad reputation as “cartoon porn”. Now they may acquire the reputation of “going gay” to those bigoted individuals who consider gay the ultimate insult. It’s one of the reasons I dislike the promotion of kichiku games. It lends more ammunition to those with an anti-bgame agenda.
Let me understand, Perigee.
Your one problem is that BL games feature gay characters?
You are totally wrong in assuming that BL games are for a restricted market -believe me, most of the fangirls prefer boyXboy than boyXgirl on a matter of erotic videogames. I am a girl and I know well the fangirls fandom, so I shall know. There are thousands of yaoi fanlistings, fansites, forum. Yaoi is, much to my own disappointment at times, more popular than girls-oriented heterosexual erotism in manga.
Or is your problem the reaction of people who are against homosexuals? BL games are made for GIRLS anyway, but if ever they don’t understand it, I seriously doubt that a bigot is going to buy even a simple H-game with lots of girls. While is someone is the kind of person to buy a H-game with a lot of girls, well, then it won’t be the existance of BL games to stop him from doing that. So you see how the problem does not sussist.
Also, it is not like BL games will ever take away the market from H-games.
You are right in saying that we girls don’t have the undeniable right to pretend to get BL games arrive outside Asia. But I was referring that only in answer to fans who do not like it AFTER it has happened. It seems it has happened, and my comment is: “fanboys, do not complain about it, think about all your H-games and try to think how you would feel if you could not have been able to play them”. That’s what I meant.
The most reasonable thing for you would be to go like “Ok, BL games are out. I won’t buy them. So, where’s that new H-game…”, instead of wasting time commenting about how bad it is that a erotic game with homosexual characters has arrived in the USA.
… I think the translation of Water Closet did more damage to the acceptability of the genre than a dozen yaoi games could.
Someday between the development of artificial intelligence and the day when the robots take over the world, I want to feed all the Ranma 1/2 fanfic I read into a computer and have it create the ULTIMATE x-change game, filled with angst and complex relationships and so many potential outcomes… (The number of clear potential relationships and directions for the story to go in are, I think, the reason that it’s one of the biggest fanfiction shows out there.)
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Originally posted by Lun:
Let me understand, Perigee.
Your one problem is that BL games feature gay characters?
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BL games (also known as yaoi games) usually refer to H games oriented around homosexual couples. The defining factor is that both the playable character(s) and possible objects of affection are male (BL stands for Boys' Love).
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You are totally wrong in assuming that BL games are for a restricted market -believe me, most of the fangirls prefer boyXboy than boyXgirl on a matter of erotic videogames.
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Or is your problem the reaction of people who are against homosexuals? BL games are made for GIRLS anyway, but if ever they don't understand it, I seriously doubt that a bigot is going to buy even a simple H-game with lots of girls.
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While is someone is the kind of person to buy a H-game with a lot of girls, well, then it won't be the existance of BL games to stop him from doing that. So you see how the problem does not sussist.
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Also, it is not like BL games will ever take away the market from H-games.
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The most reasonable thing for you would be to go like "Ok, BL games are out. I won't buy them. So, where's that new H-game....", instead of wasting time commenting about how bad it is that a erotic game with homosexual characters has arrived in the USA. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
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Originally posted by perigee:Before PP solicited yaoi games, there was hardly any interest in them on this BBS. Now that the word has gotten out, we've had lots of vocal fans dropping by. I don't doubt your passion, just your strength of numbers. If the yaoi contingent had been as large over the past decade as you seem to imply, it would be us b-gamers on your sites asking to be heard. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
EXCUSE me, I didn't come to this website asking to be heard. I came to this website because this website AS A MATTER OF FACT is translating those BL games I was speaking about. And I came here to discuss about it. If I wanted to "ask to be heard" then I'd have come to a company that wasn't translating BL games and begging them to do that.
Also it is funny that you mention Wikipedia as a "reference". Funny because some articles concerning H-games on the wikipedia were written by me. And even funnier because everyone could change that article you just mentioned by simply clicking on "edit". But anyway, you might be right or wrong, I'll keep calling erotic games with girls as H-games. Much easier to write than a long periphrasis, and everyone understands me. :P
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I'm not saying they'll take away the B-game market. I'm saying they may divert development resources. If you've followed PP's history of product releases, they bring out a couple new games a year, at best. Unless they brought a lot of new staff on board recently, I don't see how they intend to maintain the current release rate as well as start a new product line. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
Aaaaah, finally, NOW I understand what was the problem for you!!
I don't know about that then, you'd better ask the company itself. I never thought that translation of BL games could mean more H-games translated. (I personally don't think this will ever happen anyway, so you're worrying about nothing.)
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If I'm right, I won't have to ask where's that new H-game[sic]? I'll know. It will be delayed because someone's busy working on a yaoi game. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img][/B]
I shall state it again: NOW I see what you had against BL games. My bad to not have understood that before. Then I have nothing else to tell you, since in this case, it's not like me or you have nothing to do with it. :P
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Originally posted by perigee:
To use an analogy, it's like seeing your favorite restaurant expand the menu to attract new customers. It usually doesn't enhance your dining experience. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]
Suppose this restaraunt is a very unique restaraunt. One of a kind, in fact. There were a few other places that tried to offer the same cuisine, but they all folded. Now imagine that this restaraunt you really like is barely treading water.
I think at this point anything that improves the sales of ... well, "b-games" doesn't fit -- anything that improves the sales of hgames can only stabilize the market, and be good for us in the long term.
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Originally posted by Lun:
Mister, please read the last paragraph of my posting, placed just over yours.EDIT: oh well here it is, quoting myself:
"Just to make this post even longer, I would also like to add some things in defense of BL games. Boys, you already have A LOT of hentai games to play - translated in english, featuring videos, animations, and whateverelse. We females never had such thing -only few BL games, all in japanese, that don't feature animated intros or those things I often see when I play H-games. So don't you complain about "more catgirls&yuri" when you hear of BL games coming in the USA, as we poor girls had absolutely nothing for us in the market till now. "
Since no one else seems to have chimed in on this point -- you're absolutely right. Being a straight guy, I have marginally more than zero interest in yaoi; but you're finally getting what you've wanted forever. I know exactly what that feels like. More power to you.
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Originally posted by papillon:
... I think the translation of Water Closet did more damage to the acceptability of the genre than a dozen yaoi games could. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]Someday between the development of artificial intelligence and the day when the robots take over the world, I want to feed all the Ranma 1/2 fanfic I read into a computer and have it create the ULTIMATE x-change game, filled with angst and complex relationships and so many potential outcomes.... (The number of clear potential relationships and directions for the story to go in are, I think, the reason that it's one of the biggest *fanfiction* shows out there.)
I just have one thing to say, really.
http://www.livejournal.com/users/ficbitches/10513.html
I'm sorry. You weren't using your peace of mind, were you?
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Originally posted by perigee:
That's true, of course. By the same argument there could be a huge, pent-up demand for bestiality games, and it's only the fact that we haven't seen any released yet that's hiding it. I don't believe that for a minute. I'm saying the jury is still out.
Beware. This is exactly the same argument that was used to prove that "everybody knows nobody plays RPG's". (In the pre-FF7 days, I mean.) And in fact this logic is the reason we aren't seeing all the b-games we all want to play.
If everyone always sticks with the safe bets, the inevitable result is stagnation.
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Originally posted by perigee:
The simple fact is that yaoi-lovers, like yuri-lovers, have been too small a segment to create their own market. The majority of fans seem to prefer heterosexually themed erogames.
Based on what data? I believe Peter said in another thread elsewhere on this board that he was willing to bring yuri games over, but no one was making them. Nobody's ever tried bringing a yaoi game over before, so there is no real sales data whatsoever. It is quite unsurprising that yaoi games have 0% market share when none are available. (Economist types refer to this as a "market failure", I believe?)
Yarugee is far and away the best-selling genre. Crescendo and Kana, and the Angel Smile games -- none of them did very well, to my knowledge. Does that mean no more of them should be brought over?