C-G's Virtual-Mate?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#381
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I think you underestimate the utter obliviousness of the common person when it comes to computer technology. (...)

Actually I expect there to be a lot of oblivious people, but I also give more credit then I probably should to people that play these games. But that is because these games are not always easy to find anywhere but the computer. Given that it's just a feeling that especially when it comes to these games (also since they are not being released everyday) people will pay more attention to what's going on with them then they would with say anti-virus programs.

Maybe I'm wrong but the point still stands that oblivious or not we cannot be sure in this instance simply because they are silent and typically there are a lot of oblivious people.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-21-2004).]

#382
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
The problem is, the "silent majority" probably don't have access to the same information as us. They'll buy the game, find out that they've been "had" only after the fact, and will never buy G-collections games again (or maybe any B-games for that matter). Thus initial sales might not even be affected. They might even go up due to the price drop, which is more apparent to the consumer than anything related to V-mate. We might not know the market's true reaction to V-mate for several months, and by that time there's no turning back. If customers react like most of us have, G-collections will already have lost the majority of its regular customers for good by the time the sales figures starting taking a hit. That's why I'm puzzled G-collections is still going ahead with this at full steam. They're either very confident (because they know something we don't), or very foolish. For their own sake, it better be the former.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-21-2004).]

I agree that some buyers will not like to be surprised. That's why I emphasize that G-C should make sure that: (a) the physical packaging for LMM should contain a notice that the game requires online activation; (b) online/mail order retailers should include this notice in the description for LMM.

Again, I note that for consumers who are used to playing games online, VM activation wouldn't be a big hassle.

#383
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
In short, I think we really ought to wait until they make their minds up as to what they ACTUALLY meant, and THEN decide what to do.

Thank goodness that we've got a few more days for G-C to make up its mind. LOL

#384
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:
They DID have someone monitoring the boards... they had a lot of someones, actually. What was needed was someone who wouldn't automatically get pelted with rotting vegetables and dead wombats just for showing up on both the GC and PP BBS.

I, for one, appreciate your willingness to address our concerns (to the best of your ability) at this bbs and over at G-C. I also extend the appreciation to whoever is posting as "G-Collections.com" at G-C's bbs. I acknowledge that it's a thankless job, but an important one.


Is it a perfect system? Never said it was going to be. Is it a good system? How would I know, I've never used it till a few days ago, and I haven't had time to test it out fully. (Not my job to do that, anyway. I'm doing this for you people, you hear?) It's a new system, and that's all I know, and until it's actually used and tested, I'm not going to judge it.[/QUOTE]

So the sense I'm getting is that G-C is in the process of working out the bugs interfacing VM and LMM. If there are serious problems that arise during testing, I hope that G-C would be willing to delay the release date, if necessary, until all known bugs are worked out.

Second, if users have problems connecting to VM and your tech support is unable to resolve the issue, would G-C accept a return of LMM software?

#385
quote:
Originally posted by Mozart:
It's certainly easiest to presume that the people most vocal against anti-piracy measures are likely to be the pirates themselves.

I:ve never pirated a b0-game I couldbnt buy. But seeing this vnmate crap, I have lsot respect for gc and will omst likely download a cracked version when it comes out, or just buy the japanese version, which is less of an annoyance than vmate.

#386
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:

If you want to know, yes I've brought up the complaints, and critisims, abit heavily edited, because there have been points where good points have been made, but with bad civility, which might cause them to get overlooked. They are, to a point, being looked at and addressed as much as can be,...


Is it a perfect system? Never said it was going to be. Is it a good system? How would I know, I've never used it till a few days ago, and I haven't had time to test it out fully. (Not my job to do that, anyway. I'm doing this for you people, you hear?) It's a new system, and that's all I know, and until it's actually used and tested, I'm not going to judge it. I have my own thoughts and opinions on it of course, but that's not going to be told either. If I say I'm for it or against it, it ruins what objectivity I can bring around the boards.


Even if my posts were judged uncivilized by someone, still these are - or bettere were - expressions of love to b-games.
Sadly all of the answers haven't satisfied me at all, so i'm still for boycott that game. Hell, i purchased my DSL contract for commercial purpose - and if they found out i'm posting in a non commercial BBS they can sue me -, not for playing a game. In the effort to keep it secret it seems to me they didn't even thought about any one of possible consequences.

So, no offence Vaga42Bond, i hope this to be a system that is going to fail.

[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-21-2004).]

#387
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
So the sense I'm getting is that G-C is in the process of working out the bugs interfacing VM and LMM. If there are serious problems that arise during testing, I hope that G-C would be willing to delay the release date, if necessary, until all known bugs are worked out.

i think what vaga meant is that he hasn't TRIED it out fully, not literally "test" (because he said it's not his job to do it). i seriously doubt they are still working out the "bugs" (prolly you got that idea from the word "test"), and i'll be shocked if gc hasn't even have the system worked out (technically) by the release date, or even now.

[This message has been edited by Lamuness (edited 10-21-2004).]

#388

I think an equal point here is, true or stall for time excuses from G-Collections aside, it was not precisely “civilized” behavior to just suddenly announce (drop a bomb about) this V-Mate System, and it surely is not “civilized” to lie, or as they might say, to ‘accidently misinform’ us about what one year is actually the one year before the patch will be out if there even will be a patch.

Yes this backlash may have caught those in charge by surprise but then they are fools that don’t seem to know their customers (or at least the vocal ones) since they did not consider and hold in reserve a cheap quick to satisfy backup plan before announcing this system, or for that matter don’t seem to know them by announcing it in the first place.

Also, maybe they won’t like the unedited versions and hearing the unedited versions might get ignored then again it might let them know to a much better extent what are some of our true feeligns about this system. Yeah it sounds childish to curse but at the same time let’s face it the impact of saying “You’re mean” is not the same as saying “You piece of ****” even if they can be used in the same circumstance.

Okay I am tired but thought at least the fact neither side might be acting “civilized” at the moment was something to be pointed out. Also before it is said yet again, true waiting is perhaps a good idea, but at the same time wait for what? Waiting in this case might not be the best course.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-21-2004).]

#389
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
i think what vaga meant is that he hasn't TRIED it out fully, not literally "test" (because he said it's not his job to do it). i seriously doubt they are still working out the "bugs" (prolly you got that idea from the word "test"), and i'll be shocked if gc hasn't even have the system worked out (technically) by the release date, or even now.

[This message has been edited by Lamuness (edited 10-21-2004).]

Thank you, Lamuness, for clearing that up for me.

Yep, my bad. I meant to say that I haven't had any time to try out the system itself, but as it currently is, it has been through debugging and testing. I've been so busy with Hitomi -My StepSister- and Pick Me Honey, I don't have time to actually go through Let's Meow Meow. (Hell, I haven't even played through Come See Me Tonight 2. I'm THAT far behind.)

And for the rest of this, I'm on my weekend till Tuesday.

#390
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:
And for the rest of this, I'm on my weekend till Tuesday.
I partly understand your need to take a break, partly, because you did not ask to be put on the front lines, yet you were put there and while only those in charge can be blamed for this mess, to me your withdrawing for four days (until the release date rather then vanishing for 4 days after the release date) does not, in my opinion, reflect well on the company you now represent, as it is in effect an information blackout from the offical sources until after the release. Once again a personal opinion not meant as anything against you personally as you never asked for this mess or to be put on the front lines after it started.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-22-2004).]

#391
quote:
Originally posted by Vaga42Bond:
One of the little problems is that Virtual-Mate is realitively old in Japan, but fairly new in the US.
If you read the subtext here, you can get a clearer picture of how GC operates and understand how this VM situation came about. GC appears to be hierarchical with all business decisions emanating from Japan. They needed to implement measures to combat piracy, so what did they do? Brought over a Japanese antipiracy tool to protect their investment. They didn't adequately consider the impact it would have on the non-Japanese market. They decided to host a bulletin board on their web site, and again brought over a Japanese BBS product that is roundly criticized by Western users for its poor interface and usability. The US team was left to manage the situation in the face of customer complaints.

The patch announcement is another example. The BBS moderator decided to do a little damage control after consulting the local team and answer some of the more vocal objections from posters. As soon as Japan found out about it, the Tokyo hotline started ringing and the person responsible received a reprimand "You have no authority to make such business decisions." Serious loss of face there. Even more loss of face when a retraction had to be posted. I imagine that was incredibly hard to compose.

This is one area where I think PP has a big tactical advantage. I believe Peter and company operate with a lot more autonomy. They understand their customers better and conduct business in a more straightforward manner. If PP had to announce a new, restrictive anti-piracy measure, they'd use a more direct approach

quote:
Look everybody, this piracy issue is something we have to address. It's costing us a lot of revenue - to the point where it may no longer be profitable to release new titles. So we've decided to try a new verification system with our next game. It's going to impose some restrictions on our customers. You'll have to register your games online and connect for authentication every time you play them. We realize this is a heavy burden for some people. As partial payback, we'll reduce the price of new releases by 20%. This represents the overhead we've had to add to previous products to offset the cost of piracy. This is money you've been paying the pirates, in effect. If the new system is effective, we can pass on additional savings for future releases.

Of course we realize the system may fail. If it does, we'll discontinue the scheme and publish a patch to provide complete functionality. We offer full support for registration, including resale of games to third parties. We're asking for your help and support to make this effort successful.

If GC had been more up front about this whole business, people might have been more willing to listen. The reason they acted as they did is the result of applying Japanese methods to a world market.
#392
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
If GC had been more up front about this whole business, people might have been more willing to listen. The reason they acted as they did is the result of applying Japanese methods to a world market.
This is a major point, and brings up an interesting question, if they are doing business in the world market, in this case North American and Europian nations, shouldn't they have done their 'homework' to see what types of practices would and would not work with "branch offices" as I imagine Peach Princess in one way or another needed to learn before making the contacts it has in Japan?

Also and my knowledge of the Japanese business world is not vast so the answer might be obvious if I know more about it, but if someone offers a great idea (such as it seems they had with the patch after one year) why reject it, why not just let it fly since for at least an hour or two it seemed to pacify the masses?

As to the piracy thing, okay even if it is true as we all know what a big problem it is for all computer program industries, it still sort of sounds like an excuse introducing the fact it is "costing (them) a lot of revenue" this late in the game. It seems more like something to justify their actions because they won't change them even when they already know no system works against pirates and some (like this one) might just make the challenge of cracking the game more worth the effort. Lastly is "costing us a lot of revenue" enough to sink G-Collections, or just enough to reach the annoying stage?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-22-2004).]

#393

That system was screwed already before G-C evn considered to adopt it.

As i said, bad guys are passing out voices and collecting knowledge on how to do it.

So sad too bad pissing off customers without discoraging pirates. If this is the new way G-Coll is going to take, it’s nothing good for B-games market. If they’ll run out of business, this time for sure i’m not going to cry at all.

[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-22-2004).]

#394
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I don't remember who said this, but "never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence".

Of course your explanation makes sense and actually fits in with my theories as well. But how much incompentence is forgivable? And where lies the boundary between "stupid mistake" and "insolence"?

And the most important thing about this is: Will they learn something from the riot?
The answer that I chose to this question is obvious and that's why I retrtacted my trust in them.

Someone who pulled such a series of stunts and got away with it will do a similar thing again - sooner or later.

#395
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Of course your explanation makes sense and actually fits in with my theories as well. But how much incompentence is forgivable? And where lies the boundary between "stupid mistake" and "insolence"?

And the most important thing about this is: Will they learn something from the riot?
The answer that I chose to this question is obvious and that's why I retrtacted my trust in them.

Someone who pulled such a series of stunts and got away with it will do a similar thing again - sooner or later.


I agree. Their lost of reputation is growing larger and larger amongst the Net.

#396
quote:
Originally posted by Mozart:
It's certainly easiest to presume that the people most vocal against anti-piracy measures are likely to be the pirates themselves.

Nice reasoning.

How about

"Wouldn't be the ones least inconvenienced by the system be the pirates who already know what to do about it?"

in turn?

[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 10-22-2004).]

#397
quote:
Originally posted by smog:
I:ve never pirated a b0-game I couldbnt buy. But seeing this vnmate crap, I have lsot respect for gc and will omst likely download a cracked version when it comes out, or just buy the japanese version, which is less of an annoyance than vmate.

This from the guy yelling at people who said downloading is better than buying physical bootlegs?

#398
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Of course your explanation makes sense and actually fits in with my theories as well. But how much incompentence is forgivable? And where lies the boundary between "stupid mistake" and "insolence"?

And the most important thing about this is: Will they learn something from the riot?

I think the answer to both of these questions right now is "who the hell knows?". Certainly GC themselves are incapable of giving a straight answer.

But as long as they get their act together in, say, a week or so - I'll be willing to say "well, they made an ill-considered decision and backed away from it chaotically". And forget about it. They don't have a LOT of time, here, but they've got some...

#399
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I think the answer to both of these questions right now is "who the hell knows?". Certainly GC themselves are incapable of giving a straight answer.

But as long as they get their act together in, say, a week or so - I'll be willing to say "well, they made an ill-considered decision and backed away from it chaotically". And forget about it. They don't have a LOT of time, here, but they've got some...


Nandemonai-sama, almost all of the talking previously made about V-Mate were based on pure hypotesis.

Now that they have stated what they have stated, basing upon my personal experience in trade i'm sure market will punish them.
I doubt they're smart enough to realize that, and they are going to try V-Mate anyway. For sure, they didn't realized that was going to get their customers into pure chaos. Let's wait and see. I personally saved 45 persons from that weirdo. How many are not going to buy ther games? I think is better discouraging potential customers the incouraging their bad attitude by saying "OK let's try V-Mate" like most opf the opponet party here are saying and blabbering pointing us as pirate supporters.

It's uselesd, unless they don't broke their heads on the problem they'll never realize how much damage this unprovidential move has made to them. Again i say let's wait and vote with our wallets.

#400
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
If GC had been more up front about this whole business, people might have been more willing to listen. The reason they acted as they did is the result of applying Japanese methods to a world market.[/B]

Great observations in your post. My previous comment on cultural differences had this in mind. I agree that it appears G-C doesnt have the autonomy to make policy decisions regarding VM.

However, I do not agree that PP is in a superior situation; even though PP may be independent, that independence cost them connections to Japanese game makers. By this I mean PP has to independently negotiate w/ the makers and try to convince them to agree to license their products for the English market. So far only Crowd and Will have agreed to do so. G-C, on the other hand, has access to much more games b/c it appears that the Japanese backers of G-C have the power to make these games available for the English market.