Elves…would be a good start. A very good start.
… As long as they’re not dead elves!
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
.... As long as they're not dead elves!
Actually that would have been legal in California until about a month ago.
*hides*
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Sure they were in chaos when they made and retracted that statement but at the same time, they did lie, they did not take time to come to a quick decision, and as of now are still leaving us waiting. Can you trust that whatever they say tomorrow will not be changed in a week or a months time?
No, I cannot trust whatever they say tomorrow won't change in a week or a months' time. I will be able to get some idea when the plans stop being vague and start with them saying "this is how it's going to work, precisely. Here's how we're going to handle the odd cases, here's what will happen and when" as opposed to being vague - in other words, when their words indicate the presence of a real plan, as opposed to "monkeys flying out of their butt".
But they still didn't lie. Lying is when you say something you know to be false. They don't appear to have any idea what they're doing, therefore they can't lie about it.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I don't think condemning the company's actions is productive, nor do I think blindly supporting them is helpful.
I care about one thing here: getting them to change their minds. The manner in which this is done is more or less irrelevant (I mean, not so far as to open the next klozz-up warez site). If yelling at them a bit more noisily than perhaps justified gets the point across, it's actually better all around.
quote:
Originally posted by wanfu2k1:
We can still pelt you with dead wombats right??
... we'd damn well better be able to. It's a real pain to try to have that kind of thing called off. I mean, do you have any idea how hard it is to find, much less kill, wombats?
quote:Then I am curious as to what you would call it?
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
But they still didn't lie. Lying is when you say something you know to be false. They don't appear to have any idea what they're doing, therefore they can't lie about it.
See to me they presented information which at the time they likely only hoped might be true (thus could also be false and should be presented in such a way to make it clear that it could be either which is something they did not do), the one year after the release patch, and then quickly withdrew it for whatever reasons actually exist.
In a way that is lying (in my view) since they had no clue if it was accurate information or just hopeful information and yet presented it as if it were now fact.
Or perhaps even worse they had no intention of releasing a patch after one year but said something in order to appease the masses, which would then be a boldfaced lie. Of course if it was the latter and not the former they were fools for so quickly withdrawing it rather then waiting until everyone had bought then said "oops we meant..." though the fallout of having waited might have been worse come to think of it. In truth I don't think it is the latter but it is presented merely as one possibility.
Though what they did perhaps could be seen as more of accidently misinforming as they have no clue what's going on at the moment, which if it is the case as many seem to think, makes any announcements even worse to release since whatever is released might rightly or wrongly end up looking like a lie. Though this lack of information too is not pleasing people. I really don't envy the hole G-Collections dug for themselves in this case.
Anyway what you would call it? I am truly curious if there is a better word then lying or a more accurate word at least.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-22-2004).]
quote:By all means people should tell GC what they think is wrong with VM. It's just the manner in which many were doing it that seemed unproductive. Many chose to attack the company rather than the problem. When it comes to an outfit like GC, politeness counts a lot. [I don't place your comments in the attack category.]
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I care about one thing here: getting them to change their minds. The manner in which this is done is more or less irrelevant (I mean, not so far as to open the next klozz-up warez site). If yelling at them a bit more noisily than perhaps justified gets the point across, it's actually better all around.
Some of the heat generated on the board had to do with the fact that the issue placed us all at cross-purposes. Those who want the system thrown out hope that sales of LMM will be poor. Those who say they'll buy it regardless increase the chances that VM will continue to be used. Most of us probably share the sentiments of keeping GC healthy and fighting piracy. It's the plan of action that divides us.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
By all means people should tell GC what they think is wrong with VM. It's just the manner in which many were doing it that seemed unproductive. Many chose to attack the company rather than the problem. When it comes to an outfit like GC, politeness counts a lot. [I don't place your comments in the attack category.]Some of the heat generated on the board had to do with the fact that the issue placed us all at cross-purposes. Those who want the system thrown out hope that sales of LMM will be poor. Those who say they'll buy it regardless increase the chances that VM will continue to be used. Most of us probably share the sentiments of keeping GC healthy and fighting piracy. It's the plan of action that divides us.
You're right it is the plan that divides us, and perhaps attacking the company only instead of(in my opinion) a two front attack on both the company and this system is not a great course of action. Regardless, I am curious why you think with "an outfit like GC, politeness counts a lot". Is it because of the cultural difference between their headquaters and this market?
However, I at least stand with you on keeping piracy low and even if I personally continue to boycott G-Collections part of me hopes they last through this fiasco they caused.
quote:Precisely. If this situation had occurred on a Japanese game site with Japanese customers, do you think there would have been the same level of shouting?
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Is it because of the cultural difference between their headquaters and this market?
You can argue that if they're going to do business with us, they'd better learn our ways. But is our goal to re-educate them or to fix the problem? Venting may feel good, but it also lessens the chance they'll take you seriously [IMHO].
quote:I'll join you in not purchasing games for now. If V-Mate becomes a permanent feature of all GC releases, however, I reserve the right to alter that decision in the future.
However, I at least stand with you on keeping piracy low and even if I personally continue to boycott G-Collections part of me hopes they last through this fiasco they caused.
quote:Both, by re-educating we increase the chance the word will spread and hopefully nothing like this will happen in the future, or at the very least the odds are decreased. Also by re-educating it is likely by default the problem will get fixed.
Originally posted by perigee:
You can argue that if they're going to do business with us, they'd better learn our ways. But is our goal to re-educate them or to fix the problem? Venting may feel good, but it also lessens the chance they'll take you seriously [IMHO].
I don't know there is something about the squeaky wheel getting the oil that has almost always rung true. Personally the first ones I would deal with are those that are united in their venting, especially if they are a fair number of my customer base and have access to other members.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-22-2004).]
Although I seriously doubt Virtual-Mate will incapacitate determined pirates, I think the best recourse at the moment would be to actually see and experience how exactly it’s going to be implemented before we all blow our tops.
I guess we’ll get a clear picture once Let’s Meow Meow is released…
quote:You might be right, but as has been said before the real problem with waiting is we have no information beyond very vague and sometimes conflicting pieces of information which (in my personal expereince) is not a good omen. So based on personal experience I've just got a bad feeling about this system and how it won't work as promised.
Originally posted by rowena:
Although I seriously doubt Virtual-Mate will incapacitate determined pirates, I think the best recourse at the moment would be to actually see and experience how exactly it's going to be implemented before we all blow our tops.I guess we'll get a clear picture once Let's Meow Meow is released...
But for now all any of us can do is wait since nothing will be changed for this game.
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
See to me they presented information which at the time they likely only hoped might be true (thus could also be false and should be presented in such a way to make it clear that it could be either which is something they did not do), the one year after the release patch, and then quickly withdrew it for whatever reasons actually exist.In a way that is lying (in my view) since they had no clue if it was accurate information or just hopeful information and yet presented it as if it were now fact.
I am choosing to be diplomatic and assume that at the time they announced "patch after one year" they did in fact mean it; that whoever made this decision believed it would be final. That it was overruled the same day doesn't necessarily mean it was not believed at the time it was made.
That said, we're debating semantics now, and that's not usually very productive. So I'll just concede that you could call it lying and more or less be right.
One of the things I really hope they don’t do, is come back in a few weeks and say they have the perfect solution and it is “a patch after one year from the release of the game”, even if it will not be taken back this time, we’ve been down that road once already. I hope they have a more original and yet just as useful solution within a few short weeks time.
Honestly, I don’t think we have heard the last word from GC on the subject. I think they are going to talk amongst themselves for a few days and then issue another clarifying statement.
If they do NOT - if they actually think the situation is RESOLVED - that will be another matter.
quote:That could cause a delay in sales if a lot of people decide they'll wait until the patch is available [like me]. GC would be inviting a one-year boycott in that case. If they leave it open ended, people might buy the game sooner. It reminds me of the lettuce boycott we had back in the 70s. After a few months of no lettuce, people were saying "OK, we've made our point. Now let's go back to eating lettuce." If Chavez had set a time limit in advance, people might have held out longer.
Originally posted by SCDawg:
One of the things I really hope they don't do, is come back in a few weeks and say they have the perfect solution and it is "a patch after one year from the release of the game",
That’s why I guess any news will come after October 26th, which would not harm Let’s Meow Meow initial sales anymore then they already will be harmed by the wait and see what’s next people.
Also if they do it right, even if it is the patch, it might not affect initial sales of Hitomi, the next game they have to worry about in that sense.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-22-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
That's why I guess any news will come after October 26th, which would not harm Let's Meow Meow initial sales anymore then they already will be harmed by the wait and see what's next people.Also if they do it right, even if it is the patch, it might not affect initial sales of Hitomi, the next game they have to worry about in that sense.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-22-2004).]
Frankly, better for us italian customers if this system is going to fail.
Before G-Collection started to serve non US customers, we had to rely on local retailers, to pay a robbery price, and to wait for three months. I just found a way to purchase in US, and now they take this pearl out of the hat. WTF! It enraged me enough to wait three months, now i have to wait a year - if really it'll be a year!!!! HELL NO.
Sincerely i hope that this V-Mate weirdo is going to be a failure, and that Hitomi-Stepsister - the game i voted for - to be V-Mate free.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-22-2004).]
I’ve read most of the posts here. Personally, if this system is implemented, and I decide to buy another G-C game, which I probally won’t unless the system is changed, I WILL download a crack. In my mind if I buy the game legit I should be able to play it as I see fit. I think of it like playing a “mod” of a computer game. In all my life I would never have thought I would tolerate or even thank pirates for what they do, but this totally idiotic move by G-C may have me doing just that…
well one good thing that will come from this, I don’t think that after all these posts that Peter will try implimenting something like this
[This message has been edited by Laslow (edited 10-22-2004).]