C-G's Virtual-Mate?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#101
quote:
Originally posted by AG3:
Well, if you consider constant expenses (rent, wages for non-translators, other regular expenses), many titles as quickly as possible might be the only thing keeping them afloat. If you look at most of the projects, they are games that require relatively little work, aka shorter titles.

Unlikely. The main problem is, you have to do work up front to prep a title for release. So releasing a game at all involves spending money up front, for uncertain payoff. If you aren't doing well, you haven't got the cash on hand to throw at these projects, so you have to slow down because the money for operations isn't there.

#102
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
If you aren't doing well, you haven't got the cash on hand to throw at these projects, so you have to slow down because the money for operations isn't there.

Loans. You might be surprised how easy it is for a business venture to get a loan, even if it's not in sound economical health. Ask my uncle -_-;

Anyway, I could be completely wrong. But I still think it's worth trying out.

quote:
Originally posted by papillon
Instead of complaining about how much we are all bitching, you might notice that many of us are willing to make some compromises.

I only complain about those who bitch all the time, not those willing to compromise [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Compromises are good!

quote:
Originally posted by papillon
Confused and angry customers are BAD BAD BAD. Make life simple for customers. Don't piss them off. These are things you learn as a small online business.

Too bad large companies tend to forget that lesson [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 10-15-2004).]

#103

I think that’s really sad that some of us are saying things like “beep G-C.” I mean, we’re all here because we are fans of bishoujo games and G-C games make up most of what’s being released right now. I am not happy about the idea of not being able to play the game if G-C goes under. That’s really the only thing that bothers me. But, it doesn’t bother me enough to boycott the games that I enjoy playing! We are the ones who keep G-C going. If we boycott it won’t be good for them or for us. A boycott is okay only if there is a real problem, and I don’t think we can really say that has happened until we have seen first person what this game is like. We really don’t have all the details yet, so I’m just going to be supportive even though I don’t agree with what they are doing. Once everything is clear, then I may or may not be upset with G-C. Let’s just not loose our cool so suddenly.

[This message has been edited by Lamuness (edited 10-23-2004).]

#104
quote:
Originally posted by smog:
They can probably sell user information from the registration to other companies.

That's actually my main concern. What information will be gathered via the VM?

#105
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Actually (Yes, I always come up with a Great New Idea!) one thing they could do would be to only sell these discounted versions through their own website, and then require you to set up a user/pass at their website to order the game, and that same user/pass combo to install the game. That way, if you gave out your copy, you'd also be giving away your username and password to the g-coll site with your credit card details on it. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Don't know if that would work though.

[This message has been edited by papillon (edited 10-15-2004).][/B]

G-C is not going to sell a discounted version on their website, and then have retailers charge more for theirs; retailers will not go along w/ that. Secondly, it would be really bad if they keep your name/cc info on file; how safe will your info be from hackers?

#106
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
Still don't get the point, huh? The more fuss will come out, the fastest they'll be forced to explain, lol.

Unfortunately, your goal (however admirable) has failed already. If you read the posts by vagabond carefully at G-C bbs, the ppl in charge of G-C chose to have vagabond give non-answers (on his day off), rather than provide further explanation themselves. The bosses at G-C will certainly not respond to your hostile posts. And if you commit a criminal act against G-C, please remember that they've got your IP info on their server.

#107

Is it just me or does scrolling through all the msg on GC’s BBs a hassle? I can’t find how to register for GC’s BBS…I tried to post something without since I couldn’t find it and I jumped to a page in Japanese.

#108
quote:
Originally posted by smog:
I tell you what I am starting to see. Selling user information to other companies.

thank you.

#109
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Instead of complaining about how much we are all bitching, you might notice that many of us are willing to make some compromises. Also several people said they would drop their complaint if the game came out in two versions - one (high price) without v-mate and one (low price) with it.

Then the people have a choice - if you are willing to put up with the restrictions for a lower cost, go for it! If not, pay the higher fee!

Heck, I might even go along with buying the cheaper version if the higher, unlocked one was available. I wouldn't be happy about it - as I said, my games get the MOST use when the net connection is DOWN - but since it would be *my choice* rather than a forced decision, I would be more willing to take it.

It's not our fault if you don't bother replaying your old games. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Personally, I spend most of my game money these days acquiring copies of games that are ten years old, or even older! And yes, it does take some work to get them running. And since the companies involved will ABSOLUTELY not support them, you have to rely on fan communities to get them working.

Remember that I am also an *independent game developer*. Not only do I make and sell my own games, I interact with lots of other people who do (many of whom make tons more money than me). We're all tiny businesses. One-or-two full-time employees. So we discuss piracy a lot, and how to balance the need to protect your property vs the need to keep the customer happy.

And one pretty hard rule is that you do NOT require online activation if your game is not an online/multiplayer game. You're going to be stuck with a million support calls and possible credit card chargebacks, which is the absolute worst thing that can happen to a small online business person. (Well, maybe not the *absolute* worst. But pretty seriously bad.) One guy tries to do it (supplementing the registration with phonecalls for those without connection) and he is mocked for his really low sales figures despite having a very nice game... is it just because customers don't like his phone-home procedures? Well, can't say for sure... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Confused and angry customers are BAD BAD BAD. Make life simple for customers. Don't piss them off. These are things you learn as a small online business. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Like I said earlier, I will be happy if there is a regular version. I don't comprimise tyhough. After all, it is my money I am spending, to buy their products. Therefor I can do whatever the hell I want. I don't believe in internet registration of off the shelf software products.

But anyhow, I want to see what g-c has to say. They sent vagabound as a sacrificial lamb who doesnt seem to know much about the whole issue.

#110

I told them where and when pirates meet.
I told them where bittorrent links were to erase them.
I posted to them the FTP main address.

I CHECKED AND THEY DID NOTHING. NADA DE NADA ZERO NISBA 'NABENEMERITACEPPA.

Then out of the blue this crappy news?

Fine guys do what you want and buy the game and play it via V-mate. Feel happy to pay an internet connection - and please note your provider will pay them for the amount of traffic generated by your moves. Go ahead and do the ostrich as long as you want. They lowered their prices, ah! They believe some of as us are stupid? Fine happy for them. They mocked you, but not me.

I started downloading all of the hexeditors i was able to reach since 5:00 AM italian main time. I will buy this game only when i’ll be able to crack it. Or FAS will. Case closed for me.

And not to mention, i’ll not provvide any other info about pirates to such people. I helped them enough with hints and tips and they proved to be unable to react. I’ll mind to mine own bussines from now on.

PS Lamuness-sama, sorry for the language. It is really so offensive? I usually kid this way with my bro. My sincere excuses.
Ah of course you’ll understand, since this story pissed me off, REALLY REALLY MUCH, i’ll keep my mouth shut with Peter-sama too.
I don’t want to be blamed anymore or appointed as a pirate because i gave help to people who didn’t deserve it - G-Coll dudes i mean. Go ahead alone and have an happy hunt.

[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-16-2004).]

#111
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
Unfortunately, your goal (however admirable) has failed already. If you read the posts by vagabond carefully at G-C bbs, the ppl in charge of G-C chose to have vagabond give non-answers (on his day off), rather than provide further explanation themselves. The bosses at G-C will certainly not respond to your hostile posts. And if you commit a criminal act against G-C, please remember that they've got your IP info on their server.

To dissuade people from buying that game is not a crime as long as you don't point them out as fakers or b******t sellers.
I'm pretty good in convincing people. I truly believe they did an uncorrect thing to h-gamers community. Personally i don't want them to disappear, but WTH if this will happen it's their fault, not mine for sure.
You can bet i'll never get out a tear out of me for them if this happens. Read my post and see why i'm so pissed 'bout that.
I've convinced 36 people - excluded myself -to not buy that game. The only thing i did is to provide the link to G-Coll main page. They did it willingly, and i never forced them nor i provided them false infos. And i believe this is pretty enlightning on how this new "parade" is going to be wellcome amongst H-gamers.

#112

I’m not sure about information-selling. There’s not enough details out there yet to assess this. However, I see four main problems with G-collection’s V-mate system:

1) Activation requires the user to have an Internet connection on the computer to which the game is installed. There should at least be some sort of workaround, like Windows XP has with telephone activation.

2) The product requires the Internet connection to be active whenever the game is started. This is an extension of #1, but far more serious. There is no reason I should need Internet access available 24/7 just so I can play a single-player game I paid hard-earned money for whenever I want. Furthermore, this measure has NO precedent in the U. S. Even Microsoft would never dare go this far.

3) The product’s functionality is restricted beyond a simple activation code that is associated with it. If I own a game, I should be able play it on any computer I own, and I should be able to sell it. If hardware configurations are a factor, then this freedom is being wrongfully restricted. The product in question isn’t an operating system like Windows XP, it’s a game. There’s a big difference.

4) The company website must be active for the game to start. Whether the site is down temporarily, or G-collections goes out of business, if my game cannot work then we have a serious problem. Microsoft does not require continuous activation, so temporary web site problems aren’t an issue. Microsoft is also one of the most stable corporate institutions in the world, rendering the latter issue moot as well.

In 3 of my 4 points, G-collections has exceeded even oft-criticized Microsoft in its infringement on the consumer. With regards to the remaining point, the comparison is invalid due to the innate differences between an operating system and a game. Professionally, this proves that G-collections has made a huge blunder.

I’m not a fan of product activation in general, but I can stomach it if I must. However, if the system remains as it is, I don’t think I can continue to buy G-collections games. Point 1 isn’t really of concern to me, since I generally have Internet on any computers I would ever play games on. Point 2 is of concern, since Internet connections can be fickle things, even if I do have LAN on my main computer. Points 3 and 4 concern almost everyone, including me.

Well I’ve stated my opinion. Hopefully G-collections will reconsider this hasty endeavor, or at least will try to seek a satisfactory compromise. Until then, I can only bide my time and wait. It’s a shame, because I was also looking forward to this upcoming game.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-16-2004).]

#113

Oh the light after a sea of shadows!!!

I think they must get on work for a patch ASAP because

a) after what you’ve stated i believe even the most persistent V-Mate supporters must have things cleared on their mind.

b) If they create a large amount of that game and leave the whole stock unsold it’ll be a far more bigger problem for a small comp like G-Coll

c) They’ll regain PARTIALLY ( and i state this with Caps-Lock on to emphatize ) their customers’ trust, seriously compromised by the whole issue.

Hope they’ll listen…

#114

Please, we should try to keep this discussion at a civil level, insults don’t help to bring your point across, logic does.
It won’t do any of us any good if this topic would be closed due to language issues.

@ AG3
I think you are missing the point here.
No one is interested in seeing the company going out of business - we all post here because we care and want them to stay in business.
In my opinion, as already stated, this system is a mistake, and not because i feel betrayed, although i do, a little, but because i have friends. Quite a couple of them if i might add, and i know which software they buy and which they do not. NO ONE of them buys software phoning home or which has any spyware in it.
Some people here are going to buy the game, sure, but what if you were first time customers? Would you buy a spyware - infested game or leave if you were just mildly interested in bishoujo? How many would just leave and never return? I will not buy this game because it is a testbed for a new principle. I want it to fail. Not because i want G-C to fail, but because i want them very much to survive and prosper and i am sure this “feature” is the fastest way out of business.
I just hope this clarifies my motivation and motivation of quite a few other posters. I do not whine. We do not whine. We try to preserve an important hobby of us.
best regards
Tenchi

PS
If there would be 2 versions of this game - lower price with V-Mate and higher price without i would be a happy camper. G-c would also be able to see how many people would buy the lower price game and react accordingly.
Don’t think this is going to happen though. Although it would be logical in my opinion to do just that the first time - then the sales figures would speak for themselves.

#115

I have been looking forward to this game since it was polled, if I have no choice but to buy it with V-mate I will not buy the game. Given a choice I would rather spend more money on the game without V-mate.

#116
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
[B]a) after what you've stated i believe even the most persistent V-Mate supporters must have things cleared on their mind.

b) If they create a large amount of that game and leave the whole stock unsold it'll be a far more bigger problem for a small comp like G-Coll[B]

Please re-read the posts in this bbs and over at G-C's. I don't believe ANYONE is actually supporting VM. Some customers, including myself, are willing to give G-C the benefit of the doubt---in other words, stay neutral on the matter. No one is saying VM system will prevent piracy, or is good for the English h-game market.

While it's true that poor sales of Let's Meow Meow will hurt G-C, there is also the possibility that many consumers (particularly folks buying the game through retailers rather than via G-C's site) will not be aware of the VM system, and buy the product anyway.

So the question isn't how badly VM will hurt LMM sales. It's how badly VM will damage consumer loyalty and support for G-C products AFTER implementation of the VM system. If VM turns off consumers to the extent where they decide to boycott G-C products, it's very conceivable that G-C will not survive beyond 2005.

#117
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I'm not sure about information-selling. There's not enough details out there yet to assess this. However, I see four main problems with G-collection's V-mate system:

1) Activation requires the user to have an Internet connection on the computer to which the game is installed. There should at least be some sort of workaround, like Windows XP has with telephone activation.

2) The product requires the Internet connection to be active whenever the game is started. This is an extension of #1, but far more serious. There is no reason I should need Internet access available 24/7 just so I can play a single-player game I payed hard-earned money for whenever I want. Furthermore, this measure has NO precedent in the U. S. Even Microsoft would never dare go this far.

3) The product's functionality is restricted beyond a simple activation code that is associated with it. If I own a game, I should be able play it on any computer I own, and I should be able to sell it. If hardware configurations are a factor, then this freedom is being wrongfully restricted. The product in question isn't an operating system like Windows XP, it's a game. There's a big difference.

4) The company website must be active for the game to start. Whether the site is down temporarily, or G-collections goes out of business, if my game cannot work then we have a serious problem. Microsoft does not require continuous activation, so temporary web site problems aren't an issue. Microsoft is also one of the most stable corporate institutions in the world, rendering the latter issue moot as well.

In 3 of my 4 points, G-collections has exceeded even oft-criticized Microsoft in its infringement on the consumer. With regards to the remaining point, the comparison is invalid due to the innate differences between an operating system and a game. Professionally, this proves that G-collections has made a huge blunder.

I'm not a fan of product activation in general, but I can stomach it if I must. However, if the system remains as it is, I don't think I can continue to buy G-collections games. Point 1 isn't really of concern to me, since I generally have Internet on any computers I would ever play games on. Point 2 is of concern, since Internet connections can be fickle things, even if I do have LAN on my main computer. Points 3 and 4 concern almost everyone, including me.

Well I've stated my opinion. Hopefully G-collections will reconsider this hasty endeavor, or at least will try to seek a satisfactory compromise. Until then, I can only bide my time and wait. It's a shame, because I was also looking forward to this upcoming game.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-16-2004).]

Yes, this is exactly right. I'm glad that you were able to seperate the problems from the non-issues. Non-issues include G-Collections "selling" you information. Heck, they already have your credit card number and address when you order from them, and they track your IP when you visit their website. Here's what I think so far:

Point 1 - I'm only slightly against this one, because Peter Payne once mentioned that he sees bishoujo game fans at conventions who buy the games but do not have internet access. They would be unfairly cut off from being able to play a single player game. In most cases it wouldn't make a difference.

Point 2 - This has an impact on me, because I have a Dell notebook PC and I use a wireless DLS connection in my house, but when I take the computer with me other places I don't always have a connection. If I want to take the PC with me and show the game to someone, I can't do it. It's a bigger problem than what it seems.

Point 3 - I won't change hardware on a notebook PC, but I still agree that this is a crazy restriction for a bishoujo game.

Point 4 - This is the biggest problem of all. If G-collections goes under, the only way to play the game would be to get a pirated copy. Isn't that just a bad way to do business?

@Italicus

You can't expect G-Collections to do too much to pirates. You talk about how you're going to sue this person and that person all the time, and how you're going to crush the pirates, or make G-collections sorry for using V-mate. Really, it's just a lot of talk. It's really hard to get pirates to stop pirating a game. I've seen a website that stopped distrobution because G-collections asked them too. It's possible that G-collections did the same thing with the pirates you mentioned, but they simply ignored G-C. It's really impossible to be warriors who attempt to destroy piracy. Hmm, I think the best thing is to be more like bishoujo game missionaries! lol. Seriously, if you spread good word about the games and also about how fragile the companies are, it will do more good than to try to destroy piracy.

#118

I’ll leave that to you.

Sorry, but i’ve the soldier’s soul, not the missionary’s one.

Or better, i had. After all of the rantings against me unworthly accused to being a pirate, i call myself off of the matter. No more. Dunno how to put that in english, but

"Un uomo deve pulirsi il c**o da solo".

I’m more and more sure time will make justice for me and for what i said. I hate to say someone “i’ve warned you”, I prefer to put them on the advice before something happens. If they won’t listen to me patience. I’m really sick and tired this time.

About he retailers’ purchased games, i’m currently preaching of 15 Hentai BBS’. And believe me people is reacting badly. Truly.
and before someone starting accusing me for damaging G-Coll, let’s pu things in clear.

All i did was to post the G-Coll link. That was enough. They provided the rope, me i’m providing for soap. The fastest this V-Mate stuff will end, the better for h-gamers community. I think i put on the advice something like 400 potential customers till now and 45 told me clearly they are not going to buy that particular game ( me excluded off course ). An 11% ratio is pretty satisfying for me, but i think i can do even better then this.

To tell a friend he’s doing something counterproducing is not desire to kill, but desire to save. That’s my point of view.

#119

Italicus, you’re not doing anything wrong. In fact, some people may be very inconvienced by V-Mate and not want to buy the game. But, maybe they don’t know about V-Mate. I think it’s okay to let people know about V-Mate and people can then make their own decisions to buy the game or not. I see that you want G-Collections to get lows sales on this game, and then scrap the V-Mate thing and continue doing things how that have been done in the past. I just hope that GC doesn’t die in the process. Hmmm. I wonder how they’re doing. I know that companies do release financial statements that can be viewed by outside sources. I wonder if I can find something about G-C’s income statement. Has G-C issued common stock?

#120

Another point i want to check is how much legit this new gaming system will be. I’ve mailed to Warrant of Privacy’s Authority, to Adusbef and Adiconsum ( two great consumers’ defenders of rights associations ) and WTO to see if I’m able to get a copy of that particular privacy statement regulation act between Italy and US. I must be sure 100% before striking the damaging blow.

I’ve just realized today is Saturday… damn no more answers before Monday or so…

[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-16-2004).]