There you go again trying to do things with force. Sigh… I honestly think that’s just useless chatter. However, if you can actually dig up some laws and legally force G-collections to abandon this V-Mate, I would truly be impressed. But, I really doubt that will ever happen. Good luck. In any case, would you be willing to compromise? There was an interesting post on the GC BBS that some Japanese game companies use such a system for a limited time and they discontinue it’s use. If they did that, I think I would be okay with it. The one year time frame would be enough to sell most of what they will sell. Then once the system is abandonded we would be free to continue to play the game even if GC goes under. I know that G-C is just trying to protect themselves from pirates but it won’t work because the game data is on the CD. It’s not like FFXI where the actual game is online. I don’t see anyone playing that for free, heh. In anycase, I hope that GC can revise this system so that it’s we can at least be sure that when we pay for the game that will be own it forever. I think that I’ll go back and buy Kango Shichauzo 1 and Come See Me Tonight 1 instead of getting the new Meow Meow game. I’ll wait for other people to review the whole thing. I know that many of us will buy it just out of curiosity. Curiosity killed the cat.
Rumors of rantings for that V-Mate system reported to me this system may be illegal in US. Must check. Voices are so unsure…
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
There you go again trying to do things with force. Sigh... I honestly think that's just useless chatter. ........ I know that many of us will buy it just out of curiosity. Curiosity killed the cat. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
a) Force? Violence murder and rape are brute force. Law is expression of right and reason and therefore it's not force. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
b) ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
See Phantasy Star Online - the game is single-player only now, if you own a Dreamcast.
Bad point.
The servers are only down in the US. The JP and EU servers are still running.
Also, you can still play the US version online. Some knowledgeable people have made their own Dreamcast PSO server software, that people can use for free.
quote:
By the way, if they were to go down or anything else that would make it impossible for you to play, a crack would most certainly be released by someone, though I'd be thoroughly surprised if that doesn't happen anyway.
Which would mean that they failed in their intent in the first place. If a crack is easily findable and available, V-Mate's purpose is shattered.
I'm sure V-Mate will not slow down pirates. All the pirates will have to do is give the ID from the box together with the crack.
That is, unless it's a unique number for each box.
But this system is already flawed from the start because it is harassment of the consumer.
This was posted from a softare developer.
sono anche io uno sviluppatore, e lavoro per una compagnia grossa del nord che fa software per le poste italiane e per le banche (se il bancoposta si inceppa Ë anche colpa mia ), e posso capire tutto quello che vuoi; ma un discorso Ë calarsi le mutande davanti a chi ti vende un programma e un altro Ë sfruttare un servizio di terzi (nella fattispecie una connessione ad internet, lo stesso era se dovevo telefonare ad un numero verde per dare il codice ogni volta prima di giocare) per usare un prodotto
Nessuno si puÚ permettere di utilizzare per proprio profitto (la vendita del gioco e il suo utilizzo) un altro servizio a pagamento; e per di piu il software che compri (o meglio, compri la LICENZA per usare quel software piu i supporti, confezione, manuali…ecc) Ë tuo, e quindi dovrebbe esserti dato in concessione per farci quello che ti pare (ovviamente niente reverse engineering, cracking, estrapolazione di dati o di logiche ecc…) e quindi va contro l’anti thrust americano obbligarti all’autenticazione ogni volta che te giochi (suppongo che essendo in america il server rispondano alle leggi del paese in cui risiede il server della compagnia, secondo le leggi internazionali).
Va bene cautelarsi, ma cosi e assurdo!
Use babelfish to translate it plz.
Pretty enlightning. If according to italian laws this software is so so, must really see what american ones say on that matter.
Must contact him asap.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-16-2004).]
Keep what I’m going to say with simple benefit guys - 'cause i’m not sure this will work outside of Italy.
I believe i’ve found a way. No kidding. Must check more.
From now on my mouth is sealed you can’t get a single word outside of me.
O heaven thanks for the blinded goddess.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-16-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
There was an interesting post on the GC BBS that some Japanese game companies use such a system for a limited time and they discontinue it's use.
I was wondering isn't it counterproductive to produce two versions of a game; one with online registration and one without? I mean don't you basicly have to produce two sets of a game therefore increasing productions cost? Why'd the japanese companys stop?
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
Curiosity killed the cat. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img][/B]
Cat's have nine lives [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img] I'm sure I could spare one if I were one. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img] I'm more of a dog person.
[This message has been edited by Wizard Blue (edited 10-16-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Italicus:
I believe i've found a way. No kidding. Must check more.From now on my mouth is sealed you can't get a single word outside of me. ;)
O heaven thanks for the blinded goddess. :)
I'd be careful with that. It could exactly backfire. All you might manage to accomplish is get them to say "well, we're very sorry, but apparently it's illegal to sell games with these features in Italy. All Italian customers, be advised we cannot accept your orders, and will have to cancel them."
[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 10-16-2004).]
Selling two versions of the game won’t work if the target is to cut down on piracy. The pirate will simply buy the version without V-Mate and make that available.
That license expiring doesn’t sound like a good idea. How will the game check if it has been one year? The PC clock? Then pirates could simply advance their clock by a year.
The Internet? Then we still have to make a connection every time we want to play.
Guys, why don’t we just mail G-Collections, stating our problems. I think that will be more effective.
i still honestly think that, at this present time, emailing them (or bitching) will be ineffective because i am sure they will just go ahead on it anyways…at least for one single try, that is. i’d say that you guys just let go of it (for now) because 99.99% they will just do it anyways
just my opinion
I don’t think e-mailing would be any more effective than posting on the message boards. If they care about our opinions, they’ll read these boards. If not, they won’t, and e-mailing won’t change that. At best, they’ll just reply with a blanket response that won’t answer individual concerns. They don’t have the customer support resources, or the motivation for that matter, to give personalized, well-constructed responses to every single person that e-mails them.
I think a 1-year expiration would be a good step towards addressing some of our problems, along with multiple activations (multiple accounts?) per game copy. Changes in hardware configuration on a single computer would be less of a problem, since most people don’t signficantly change their computer hardware more than once a year. Multiple activations would allow the game to be installed on two or three different computers under the same username/password, which is enough for most people, I think. 1-year expiration would also allow the game to be sold after a year, which still isn’t completely satisfactory, but it’s an improvement. And of course the expiration would allow the game to work if G-collections goes out of business or stops supporting the games.
In exchange for significant price cuts (down to around $30-$35/game), I’d personally be willing to accept a V-mate system with 1-year expiration and multiple activations/user. If they want any more money than that from me, however, they’ll have to do better.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-16-2004).]
Also, here’s something that just came to me. Mandatory registration (as opposed to just activation) of any sort will seriously hamper “word-of-mouth” advertising. Why? I’m sure one of the most common ways people are exposed to b-games, other than through piracy, is through friends. One friend loans a b-game to another friend (this is legal, if I’m not mistaken) and that person enjoys playing it and decides to buy some for himself. And thus a new fan is born.
But what if mandatory product registration enters the equation? I can’t just loan out my games anymore. Even if I do, and my friend is allowed to register the game due to a multiple account allowance, this friend will still be hesitant. Why? It comes down to simple psychology. B-games are still a taboo, at least in America. Mandatory registration makes a person become acutely aware that he’s breaking an embarrassing taboo. What’s more, the registration will serve as a permanent record that he’s played the game, whether he likes it or not. It may sound stupid, but these are things that would certainly be going through my head, consciously or unconsciously, if I was the first-time player being introduced to the genre.
The same logic would apply to any first-time players looking to get into the genre, but held back by embarrassment (i.e. most of them). The process of registration would only increase their anxiety, making it less likely that they would take a chance and buy a game or two. And even if embarassment was not a factor, the complicated new system would likely put many potential b-gamers off due to the hassles it introduces, regardless of one’s views on the business ethics of activation (which seems to greatly bother a number of people on these boards).
Is the loss of potential customers offset by the (supposed) reduction of piracy? I hardly think so. Pirates will crack any protection system, no matter how “tight” it might be. It might take a little longer, but it’ll happen sooner or later. And let us suppose, for the minute, that the system completely eradicates piracy (yeah, dream on, but just stick with me for a second). Let’s face it: the vast majority of pirates, left without a something-for-nothing means of attaining these games, will never dish out $40-$50 to play one legitimately. The assumption that curbing piracy will increase sales by any significant degree is a pipe-dream, IMO.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-16-2004).]
Limited to one year would make it fine and fix the problems of multiple computer/hardware, as you said, since few people are going to have to replace THAT much THAT often THAT fast. As for how to check - well, since it starts with V-Mate originally, it would have to keep connecting to the V-Mate site until their server said the year was up and unlocked your copy.
The problem with that is that English bishoujo games probably aren’t as front-loaded as mainstream games. With most big titles, they get the majority of sales in the first few months, so if they can block pirates for those months, it’s all good. The number of English bishoujo-games is still small enough that games that are months (and years) old are still possibly hot commodities. At least sought out by pirates a lot more than similarly-old mainstream games, IMO. So it might not be as effective. Still, it’s an option.
quote:
While it’s true that poor sales of Let’s Meow Meow will hurt G-C, there is also the possibility that many consumers (particularly folks buying the game through retailers rather than via G-C’s site) will not be aware of the VM system, and buy the product anyway.
This is the biggest problem. Someone buying the game elsewhere may not know about the system… and may not have an internet PC (if they can find a retail store that carries the games physically)… and BOY will they be unhappy when they get home and can’t play the game!
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
The problem with that is that English bishoujo games probably aren't as front-loaded as mainstream games. With most big titles, they get the majority of sales in the first few months, so if they can block pirates for those months, it's all good. The number of English bishoujo-games is still small enough that games that are months (and years) old are still possibly hot commodities. At least sought out by pirates a lot more than similarly-old mainstream games, IMO. So it might not be as effective. Still, it's an option.
Regrettably, you have a point there. The Japanese b-game industry (where the expiration option is utilized with some degree of success, apparently) is much more akin to the U.S. main game industry in that respect. But what other options are there, given the framework of the system they've already proposed?
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-16-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I'd be careful with that. It could exactly backfire. All you might manage to accomplish is get them to say "well, we're very sorry, but apparently it's illegal to sell games with these features in Italy. All Italian customers, be advised we cannot accept your orders, and will have to cancel them."
Tht's not my plan. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
If I'm right, the only thing i have to do is to buy the game, then click on "I do not agree" and.... eheheheheh ! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Anyway seriously there's a controverial issue with italian and european laws. If they 'll go on this way i'm afraid they're going to lose access not only to italian, but to european market as well.
Before moving anyway i'll wait and pray this system to fail badly the sales test.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 10-16-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
i still honestly think that, at this present time, emailing them (or bitching) will be ineffective because i am sure they will just go ahead on it anyways........at least for one single try, that is. i'd say that you guys just let go of it (for now) because 99.99% they will just do it anywaysjust my opinion
Let's hope they fail this test. I for my own contacted 400 potential customers and convinced 45 to do not buy this title for sure. Simply by showing them G-Coll homepage, lol!!!! Till now, the most gentle comment i heard is "E' una ca*ata solenne". [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
Lamuness sama, it s possible to ask them how sales went in Italy? I doubt 400 italians are not a "quantitË negligeable".... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I'd be careful with that. It could exactly backfire. All you might manage to accomplish is get them to say "well, we're very sorry, but apparently it's illegal to sell games with these features in Italy. All Italian customers, be advised we cannot accept your orders, and will have to cancel them."[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 10-16-2004).]
Ah! You beat me to it, Nande! G-C's focus is on U.S. consumers. (And possibly Canadian consumers/market too.) If G-C has to reject orders from Europe in order to avoid European regulations, I think G-C will simply avoid the hassle. Now the better question is whether the VM system violates any U.S. law. . .
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
i still honestly think that, at this present time, emailing them (or bitching) will be ineffective because i am sure they will just go ahead on it anyways........at least for one single try, that is. i'd say that you guys just let go of it (for now) because 99.99% they will just do it anywaysjust my opinion
I'm sure by now the printing press is busy making copies of LMM now, with the VM material included in the software. So I tend to agree that complaining is ineffective at this point. A more effective method, if you choose to do so, is to boycott the game.
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
The problem with that is that English bishoujo games probably aren't as front-loaded as mainstream games. With most big titles, they get the majority of sales in the first few months, so if they can block pirates for those months, it's all good. The number of English bishoujo-games is still small enough that games that are months (and years) old are still possibly hot commodities. At least sought out by pirates a lot more than similarly-old mainstream games, IMO. So it might not be as effective. Still, it's an option.This is the biggest problem. Someone buying the game elsewhere may not know about the system... and may not have an internet PC (if they can find a retail store that carries the games physically)... and BOY will they be unhappy when they get home and can't play the game!
I tend to disagree with your suggestion that English b-games are not frontloaded, sales-wise. I think the bulk of G-C's sales for new releases come within the first few weeks, and then trickle off.
As for the retail buyer not knowing about the VM system, it's definitely an additional (and unnecessary) hassle for G-C to tackle. If I was in charge of sales at G-C, I would require online retailers/distributors to have a note indicating that internet connection is required to play this game. And on the packaging of the product, I would state so as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Also, here's something that just came to me. Mandatory registration (as opposed to just activation) of any sort will seriously hamper "word-of-mouth" advertising. Why? I'm sure one of the most common ways people are exposed to b-games, other than through piracy, is through friends. One friend loans a b-game to another friend (this is legal, if I'm not mistaken) and that person enjoys playing it and decides to buy some for himself. And thus a new fan is born.But what if mandatory product registration enters the equation? I can't just loan out my games anymore. Even if I do, and my friend is allowed to register the game due to a multiple account allowance, this friend will still be hesitant. Why? It comes down to simple psychology. B-games are still a taboo, at least in America. Mandatory registration makes a person become acutely aware that he's breaking an embarrassing taboo. What's more, the registration will serve as a permanent record that he's played the game, whether he likes it or not. It may sound stupid, but these are things that would certainly be going through my head, consciously or unconsciously, if I was the first-time player being introduced to the genre.
The same logic would apply to any first-time players looking to get into the genre, but held back by embarrassment (i.e. most of them). The process of registration would only increase their anxiety, making it less likely that they would take a chance and buy a game or two. And even if embarassment was not a factor, the complicated new system would likely put many potential b-gamers off due to the hassles it introduces, regardless of one's views on the business ethics of activation (which seems to greatly bother a number of people on these boards).
You raise some fascinating points. Especially the psychological aspects. I think the embarrassment issue depends on whether the consumer is underaged or an adult. If the user is a college kid dorming, he probably wouldn't care about other people around him finding out his use of these games. Ditto for adults. But if the user is underaged, then yeah it's a big issue if someone tells his mommy; then again, "officially" G-C (and Jast/j-list for that matter) aren't selling h-games to underaged consumers, so it's sort of a moot point, IMO.