Just finished playing Discipline

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#41

You are right. Men can’t be raped by women in the real world. But in the game it is possible because they use a special drug to do it (and the main male character is so special that he even don’t need the drug to be “forced” to have sex with all the beautiful women). This is the interesting and kinky part of the game which makes it worth buying.

But the problem is that the evil women also use the drug to force men to rape other women and the bad endings are just awful. Even in the good ending the evil women are not punished for all their evilness and their many crimes. So even in the good ending there isn’t really any justice. Good can’t beat evil in this game and the endings are very unsatisfying.

#42

Uh… yes they can. In a variety of ways. It’s just not very common, given that

a) many women aren’t very strong, making it tough to force adult men
b) some men can’t comprehend the idea of saying no in the first place
c) women apparently don’t commit nearly as many sex or torture crimes as men do anyway

So your most common female-predator scenario is the female child molester, and even those aren’t that common. Still, there��s nothing stopping a sufficiently motivated woman from locking you into CBT and shoving a spiked dildo up you. It just doesn’t generally happen. :slight_smile:

There was a famous case long ago in England with a crazy lady kidnapping some man she fancied and keeping him chained to the bed as a sex slave and they couldn’t figure out what to charge her with, because it was LEGALLY not possible to charge a woman with rape at the time…

#43

Well, I didn’t express myself clear enough. Men can be raped by other men. Women can also tie them up and give them oral sex without their consent or do similar things. But a woman can’t ever force a man to real intercourse if he doesn’t want to. The problem is, that this is impossible without erection. But a man can’t get any erection if he is scared (because the woman is threatening him or trying to force him to do it even though it probably will have very bad consequences for his marriage or something else). A woman who holds a gun against your head saying something like “I want you to make me pregnant now, because I want your baby and know that your wife then will divorce you and ruin you! If you don’t do it then I will kill you!” will never succeed because you just won’t be able to do what she demands even if you believe that she will kill you if you don’t do it.

A man can’t have sexual intercourse unless he is relaxed and feels confident and secure. But if this is the case then it isn’t real rape. So sexual intercourse just can’t occur when a woman tries to rape a man.

#44

Alas, I can’t really capture a guy and torture him for your amusement just to prove the point. :slight_smile:

Men cannot always stop themselves from getting erections (ask teenagers!). Especially if stimulated by someone sufficiently knowledgeable, especially under the influence of drugs.

For that matter, if you pysch yourself up to be able to perform sexually because you are under the duress of a death threat, it’s still rape.

#45

Men don’t usually have any adrenaline in the blood when they are under influence of drugs. Instead they become more careless and maybe they don’t realize the consequences before the drugs wear off.

To capture a guy and try to rape him won’t prove anything because if he likes it, wants it and isn’t afraid then he will obviously just relax, cooperate and enjoy it. Some women react in the same way by asking for more instead of trying to stop the rapist. But it is much more unusual for women to do this because women will most often be scared that the rapist will hurt them in other ways too. Male rapists very often only rape a type of women who they hate. (Ugly women are raped just as often as pretty women.) Therefore many rapists don’t want their victims to enjoy the sex at all and they often hurt the victims to make sure that they don’t have any pleasure from it. Such rapists just want to humiliate their victims and feel powerful. But a male victim can’t have real intercourse with a woman without enjoying it.

When the “victim” chooses to enjoy the rape and enjoy it then it isn’t real rape. Some women even write stories about their fantasies of being “raped” by handsome guys. But this rarely happens in the real world because nice handsome guys never know which women would like to be “raped” by them.

#46

Picking up a guy in a bar and saying “Hey, let’s have sex!” and him saying “Okay!” would not be rape. Obviously.

Kidnapping a guy off the street at gunpoint, blindfolding him, carrying him off to a private dungeon, chaining him in suspension, and applying electricity as if he were a bull I were milking for semen certainly would be. For obvious reasons, this is a crime!

Actually, it’s fairly common for women to do this, and many workshops teach it as the most practical survival strategy. Don’t attack unless you can win. If you’re not capable of getting away clean, DON’T struggle, it makes you more likely to be hurt.

This is part of why it’s so devastating for the victims in the rare cases that it happens - people tend not to believe them, or to think it’s all a funny joke! “Oh, ha ha, kidnapped at gunpoint, chloroformed and chained to the bed by a woman! I should be so lucky!”

Sure, full intercourse leading to ejaculation requires that a man experiences some physical sensations that can, in some circumstances, be pleasurable. That’s not the same thing as enjoying it. Experiencing semi-pleasure that you don’t want is quite horrible and can leave people with psychological damage, unable to properly enjoy the supposedly-pleasurable sensations later on without having flashbacks to the terrible past.

If I chain you to the wall, take your hand, put a knife to your index finger and start cutting, then pause halfway through and say I’ll stop if you kiss me passionately - you kissing me passionately IS NOT CONSENSUAL.

Yes, they do. Because it’s an entirely different thing than the reality. They’re very common among people who think sex is something to feel guilty about, and therefore like to project their own desires into the body of another person, who does exactly what they really want without them having to ask for it or feel dirty or embarassed. There’s also the flipside - fantasizing about someone whom you could never have suddenly being so overwhelmed with lust for you that they completely lose their OWN control and come at you like a raging beast.

Neither of these fantasies has anything to do with the reality of rape. No assault by a handsome stranger would EVER be fulfillment of a rape fantasy, because in a fantasy the true power lies in the hands of the person who is fantasizing!

#47

I am not trying to defend rape because rape is always a crime. The exception is when the “victim” thanks the rapist and instead of wanting him in jail just asks him to do it again some other time. But I agree that this nearly never happens in the real world.

Don’t believe that you understand all women though. I still remember a very special statement from an 18 year old girl who was one of my classmates in high school because her statement surprised me. She said: “I don’t understand those women who are about to be raped why they just don’t relax and enjoy the sex when they can’t avoid the rape anyway because it is stupid not to get any pleasure from it when you can’t avoid it anyway!” She was dead serious. But I didn’t believe that she could do it herself because she obviously had some delusions. She must have imagined that the rapist was a nice guy she felt safe about. But such guys usually don’t rape girls and if she was scared then she would never be able to enjoy it.

Your examples aren’t similar to the stories I talked about. Go to the site http://literotica.com/stories/index.php and read some of the “NonConsent/Reluctance” stories. All those stories are written for fun by people who prefer that kind of stories. And nearly all the rape stories about women enjoying to be raped and dominated are written by women. There is no doubt that those women have dreams about being dominated and some of them also have dreams about being raped and dominated by several guys at the same time. Most of the women would be much too scared to be able to enjoy it if it happened to them in real life though.

#48

No, she probably believed that you should make the best of a bad situation. Which is still easier said than done. It’s easy to hear about a situation and pick out the most logical, rational thing to do. Put on the spot, people don’t think straight - many people who’ve been on gameshows and flubbed horribly will try to explain that they’re really good at answering such questions at home, but as soon as they’re on the spot, they lose it completely.

Similarly, if you are trapped and cannot possibly escape, struggling harder will only get you hurt more. Trying to relax, no matter how gross it is, may get you hurt much less. THIS DOESN’T MEAN YOU SUDDENLY THINK YOUR RAPIST IS A NICE GUY! It’s just plain self-preservation. Not only does going along with it mean that the person on top may stop hitting you, but you may also take less internal damage if you’re not tense.

Also, if she’s never actually been assaulted, she may be thinking of it in purely mechanical terms, rather like a gynecological exam. There are a number of medical ordeals women have to go through that involve lying on your back half-naked while someone sticks their hands or other devices up you. This can be humiliating and distressing. Or you can just decide to think that it’s pervy and find the whole thing entertaining. :slight_smile:

… ‘usually’? Nice guys sometimes commit assaults on girls in your worldview?

Because real-life assault is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to rape fantasy. Bears no resemblance whatsoever.

Rape fantasies do have some relationship with real-life BDSM, though. And there are women who write rape fantasies who have also gotten lovers to play out scenes with them. But it’s a scene. A fantasy. It is under the control of the person having the fantasy. With safewords.

#49

Yes, if a woman did it that way the guy would probably be scared. And then there would be no chance that he got an erection.

I wasn’t referring to scared passivity but to the woman actively and seriously encouraging the guy and begging for more. This happens too but is very rare.

Correct. But this requires some emotional dependence between the victim and the rapist. It can’t really happen if a stranger does the rape. But I agree that it can happen if for instance a mother tries to make her son or stepson have sex with her. The problem in such cases is that the victim is emotional dependent of the woman but still doesn’t want to have sex with her. And you are right that the psychological damage can be very serious because of the emotional conflict between loving the woman as a mother and being pressured to unwanted sex with her.

Correct.

I am not sure if it is about guilt. But it obviously is about wanting the guy to take the initiative and the whole responsibility. There are links back to a time where safe contraception didn’t exist and women were “owned” by their husbands. At that time women would be punished if they didn’t wait for the guy to take the initiative. So for hundreds and probably thousands of years it was only natural for women to behave that way.

#50

There are special situations when for instance a girl’s boyfriend is jealous and maybe drunk and rape her. If this only happens once in their lifetime then the girl might not be very scared and easily forgive him. Especially if the girl feels guilty for making him jealous.

I don’t think that the girl normally should forgive him even in such a case. But it is her judgment and under special circumstances she could be right in still judging him to be a nice guy.

#51

Why do you think I mentioned milking bulls for semen? The whole POINT of cattleprodding them is to force a sexual reaction.

Now, few people are going to have the training to pull that off on a human (for one thing, electricity is dangerous). But stimulation to the right places can force an erection, and men do suffer unwilling sexual arousal when assaulted.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl … _rape.html
http://www.aest.org.uk/survivors/male/m … e_rape.htm
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/arti … 067214.cms

And if you’re really desperate, you can use vaccuum pumps and constrictor bands to force someone into an erection, although I can’t imagine WHY anyone would go to that much trouble.

Most ideas I can come up with for female-on-male (and I have a very nasty imagination) are really more in the realm of torture than traditional rape. Although torturing someone for your own perverse sexual pleasure is still kinda rapey.

Most rape isn’t performed by strangers. And while the example you gave is a good one for why someone would very strongly not want to have sex with someone, it’s not a requirement - some men really don’t want to have sex with everything with a pulse. :slight_smile:

In the famous case where the crazy lady hauled the guy off and chained him up, the guy was a Mormon, so he had all the religious guilt to deal with.

#52

Papillon, you sound very knowledgeable. 8)

I liked Discipline. It’s less darker then BB.

#53

You can’t compare milking an animal for semen with milking a man.

If you have total control over the man for weeks and use forced hypnosis (also known as brainwash and can only be done after you have prohibited the person to have any sleep in many days) then it could be done. Maybe also if you stop oxygen to his brain long enough to give him brain damage or something similar. But I doubt it. Anyway a normal woman would not know enough to do such a thing efficiently.

There is a big difference between sexual assault and forced intercourse with ejaculation. The article doesn’t mention intercourse at all.

I have never said that females can’t sexually assault and torture a man because it is very obvious that they can. But forcing a man to have intercourse with ejaculation against his will isn’t something a normal woman could do.

#54

Our discussion is quite sidetracked by now. If a woman have to use extreme measures like stopping oxygen to the brain or using forced hypnosis to force erection then my main point is still completely true: In the real world women can’t in any way rape a man as easily as it is done in the game Discipline.

#55

No story I’ve ever seen has involved details like those, they’re your invention. Neither of those was used on the kidnapped mormon, afaik!

It’s admittedly slightly difficult to tell given the language, but it gives the impression that they’re talking about intercourse: “As he regained consciousness, Khalil found that the women “were forcing themselves onto me”.”

Many news stories don’t give a blow-by-blow of exactly what was done, because that’s a huge blow to the victim’s dignity. I found a recent news story involving a woman doing SOMETHING horrible to a guy while he was passed-out-drunk… I suspect it wasn’t intercourse in that case, but I’m not sure I want to know just what she did! I’ve also seen stories which give a clearer impression of intercourse taking place.

Or this:

Or this:

There’s also this story:
http://www.mosnews.com/society/2009/04/14/1013/

But in all these cases, no matter what was done to the guy, most comments responding to the story still laugh it off, which helps add to the atmosphere of most men being very unwilling to admit it if it happens to them.

A penis is a penis, isn’t it?

If you’ve got a guy helpless and you stimulate the genitals directly - mouth, fingers, electrodes, vaccuum pump, whatever - I’m fairly sure it is possible to cause an erection against his intent and desire. Since I don’t have one, I have to base my guesses on what sources I can find. :slight_smile:

#56

While I am with papillon on this, I will concede a couple slight points to erpe. There is a slight difference between a human’s penis and the penis of a bull for instance. Most male mammals have an actual bone in their penis called a Baculum (AKA penis bone, penile bone or os penis). Humans are one of the exceptions. So there is a slight difference in most cases. However, horses are another of the exceptions. The other thing is that I’m not sure if they necessarily need to get an animal erect to extract semen.

#57

I bow to your superior knowledge of penises. :slight_smile:

#58

I think, that you refer to the following story:

[i]"The pair had a brief affair when they were both studying drama in the US.

A few years later, Ms McKinney, then 28, tracked Mr Anderson, 21, to Surrey where he had been posted as a missionary, and kidnapped him.

After failing to persuade him to marry her and father her children, she donned see-through lingerie and forced him to have sex with her, reportedly resolutely overcoming his Mormon chastity belt.

He finally escaped and Ms McKinney was arrested.

Mr Anderson told a court at the time: “I couldn’t move. She grabbed the top of my pyjamas and tore them from my body until I was naked. I didn’t wish it to happen. I was extremely depressed and upset after being forced to have sex.”

Ms McKinney’s counsel said of Mr Anderson: “Methinks the Mormon doth protest too much … you have seen the size of Mr Anderson and you have seen the size of my client.”"[/i]

The problem in this story is, that Mr Anderson probably wasn’t really scared at all and therefore able to relax. I also think that he voluntarily chose to have sex with the beautiful kidnapper when he got the opportunity in a way where he could claim that he was “raped” and therefore didn’t have any responsibility. The fact that they had an affair earlier probably meant that he wasn’t afraid of the woman.

The problem comparing a man with a bull is that the bull probably doesn’t feel neither responsibility nor guilt. So the bull has no reason to be scared when it is used to humans. Therefore it is only natural for the bull to relax and cooperate.

If the man prefer to get the intercourse done instead of having troubles and isn’t afraid of the woman or the consequences then he will be able to cooperate too. But this won’t be the case if the woman is a stranger holding a gun against his head or a knife against his throat. Neither will he be able to relax if he think that his beloved marriage is in danger or if the woman will become pregnant and be able to use a baby to force him to pay more money to the baby than he can afford.

Even worse: If he is afraid that she might still kill him after the rape (which male rapists sometimes do) then he won’t be able to get erection either.

My conclusion still is: When a man has adrenaline in his blood (because he is scared or ready to fight in a competition) then he will never have any erection because nature prohibits this. But if he is totally relaxed then especially young men often get erection for no reason at all. Relaxing alone in a chair or in a bed is often enough to make this happen. But a woman can’t force a man to relax by threatening him.

#59

So your argument is that the victim is lying, and that anyone else who tells such a story is also lying, no matter how many of them I post?

Amusingly, your arguments also sound almost exactly like those denying more “traditional” male-on-female rape. “She went out with him before! She must have consented!” Rape victims have OFTEN had previous relationships with their rapist. Rape is not usually performed by a stranger!

I don’t think animals having painful eletrical cattleprods jammed into them are exactly “relaxed” and “cooperating”.

Again - many references state that men can be aroused against their will by stimulation.

#60

Jesus Christ did this thread go off in the weeds or what… :lol: