Ne ne, what do you want, oniichan?

JAST Games Your Suggestions To Us
#61

"Has anything been stated regarding Hoshizora no Memoria in the past?"

Not that I'm aware of.


"But, if Mangagamer localizes anything they can get their hands on, wouldn't it be the same result?"

Because Mangagamer doesn't seem to have any quality standards with regards to licensing choices, their brand suffers. Savvy customers know that their titles vary greatly in quality, and can never be sure if a title they're interested in is actually any good. Casual fans may get a stereotyped impression of eroge based on MG's haphazard selection. Being known for cheap plotless nukige isn't the most flattering image for your brand, especially if you're trying to market other types of games too.


But maybe I'm just sour because Mangagamer hasn't really released any games that really got me excited, while JAST's releases just seem to get better and better.


Cynthia ~Sincerely to You~ has H-content. You shouldn't use presence of ero screenshots to determine whether a game has ero or not. Rating (18+) is what you should be looking at. The tag "Only Virgin Heroines" kind of gives it away too. :P


Cynthia's main heroine reminded me of Chii from Chobits. And I really liked Chii.







#62

Darn it. :(
Hopefully, it might become a viable option in the future at a point.

Personally, I wonder why they didn't localize more stuff from Navel.
Shuffle Essence+; sure, the regular edition would probably decrease in sales, but isn't it important to please your customers and deliver?
I mean, it's not like they are lacking games by now, they have translated a decent amount of titles, so they do have a good income and they stated themselves that they could successfully establish themselves, so what would be stopping them to take that route now?
Out of boredom, I contacted a doujin group on my own behalf and told them that I like their stuff and if they would be interested in bringing them to the west.
I was surprised to receive a response, which stated that they have plans to make a Chinese translation, but not an English one, as they don't have anyone capable of English to a satisfying degree.
Recommended them to Mangagamer and they said, that ''they will look into it''.
I'm talking about Shining Star by the way; their games are by far not anything special, but they often have a simplistic gameplay mechanic.
Definitely anything but a special title, but something very basic; suits my taste perfectly, especially because flatchests and stuff. :P
Hearing this, I was jokingly recommending Mangagamer them, as I doubt that they would touch any of their titles, because they are often heavy on loli/shota, albeit nothing too extreme from what I know, but considering your statements about Mangagamers mentality, it does seem like this doesn't seem too far out of reach anymore.
On one hand, I'm somehow glad that they might add titles to their releases of a publisher I'm interested in more or less, but on the other hand, even I think that their games are a bit too... flat. (get it?)

Bad jokes aside, if I say something is too bland, that means a lot, because I generally like VN's and don't really care about how bad something is.
''Break Panic'', one of Shing Star's titles, is actually around the level of the first Boob Wars, just not THAT cheesy. I'm more referring to before-mentioned gameplay mechanic.
The mentioned title is a clone of breakout; being a retrogamer myself, I find this refreshing to see in a game, but I could understand if this bizarre mix between VN, loli stuff and retrogaming wouldn't be everyone's cup of tea.


Well, I need to learn not to derail that much from the topic at hand... sorry.
Anyways, Mangagamer isn't a representative of Visual Novels after all; there are Jast and Sekai Project as well, so anyone who isn't dumb and atleast informed him-/herself the slightest bit about western publishers of Visual Novels would notice that different publishers tend to focus in different achievements, developers and franchises.
Would they really fall for a wrong first impression?
Then again, never underestimate mankinds' stupidity, maybe this should be taken as a rhetorical question...

What about Princess Evangile?
It does seem sorta neat. Don't get the hype over Ruriko, but oh well, seems like a solid ''Moege'', even though I don't like using that term.

Didn't really notice that. ^-^''
I'm more of a visual type of person, so I most of the time just check out the artwork, or read the story plot as well, if I'm interested enough.
But yes, you are right.
Ugh, I don't want to admit it, but you pay more attention to the details as I do... I still insist on my point of view being ''inferior'' to yours.
Seriously... everyone has his preferences, that's why I was always mentioning this.
I don't want to be ''that person with no taste''. :/

Never bothered reading Chobits, but it did come of as an interesting story.
Liked the artwork.
Yes... that's pretty much I can say about most titles, because this is what I mostly care about. ^-^''


#63

"I'm talking about Shining Star by the way"

It doesn't look like Shining Star has released any new games in the past 3 years. That makes me wonder a bit.


Given recent events, the chance of even Mangagamer licensing a loli-ge is basically zero. The legality in the Western world is simply too questionable. I wouldn't even import such a title myself; it's simply too risky. And I'm a lolicon.


"Anyways, Mangagamer isn't a representative of Visual Novels after all; there are Jast and Sekai Project as well, so anyone who isn't dumb and atleast informed him-/herself the slightest bit about western publishers of Visual Novels would notice that different publishers tend to focus in different achievements, developers and franchises."


Most of Mangagamer's potential audience doesn't even know Mangagamer exists. So yes, impressions matter.


"What about Princess Evangile?"


Based on an hour or so of playing the demo, Evangile looks alright. It's something I might consider buying, even though I don't typically like moege. Based on others' comments, it may actually be a superior moege considering what's currently officially available in English.


"I still insist on my point of view being ''inferior'' to yours."


As long as you realize I'm right.


It's hard to have an informed opinion of eroge if all you've ever played is English games, especially if you're trying to recommend titles that should be localized. Almost by definition, English players have almost no clue what Japanese language games they'd like. Compounding the problem is that translated games represent a tiny, selective portion of what's available in Japanese. And by "selective", I don't mean the best. For example, people assume that all Eushully games are like Kamidori Alchemy Meister: simple yet fun gameplay paired with a silly child's tale and frivolous sex scenes. They don't realize that some of Eushully's titles are story-focused dark epics that would compare favorably with mainstream JRPGs. They don't know, and therefore they guess. Just like you guessed that Cynthia had no ero because there was none in the screenshots. English players lack information, and they lack perspective, because they only have English games to use as a reference.



#64

"The artist Tony Taka has worked on other games including France Shoujo–which has more than art going for it. Although it’s also so long that neither JAST or Mangagamer would ever work on it, so…"

I’d love to play that game but the length of it makes it an unlikely game to be picked up as you pointed out. I also like Jellyfish’s Sisters which you mentioned. The game has great art work and would probably sell very well too. Also considering the fact that the R1 OVA Hentai market is dead there should be a fair amount of interest for this game.

†

#65

Ugh, the amount of writing mistakes I make is tremendous.

Wonder about what exactly?

Well, VNDB isn't the best place for looking up Visual Novels; it's pretty much the only halfway reliable source that covers a ton of titles, which is the only plus about that site.
I even added one of Bakery's titles there as an entry before deleting my account afterwards because of me coming to the conclusions of the userbase being a bunch of idiots that have no idea what they are talking about.

I would be daring enough to import such a game.
There is nothing wrong with that; it's ink on paper, what is wrong with loli-related material as long as it's fictional?
You and I both know the answer - nothing at all.
It does seem like people are getting more and more tolerant about this stuff though.

Lolicon

I'm surprised that the comment section didn't turn into a massive shitstorm.
I can see the legal circumstances that might be off-putting for western publishers for that, but why is it that the ignorance of the mass has to surppress hobbies/interests of minorities?
I'm serious, why do we have to get screwed over the uneducated and baseless opinions of complete idiots that haven't even thought about this whole thing the slightest bit.
That guy hits the nail on the spot with his video.

How do you know so, the part about Mangagamer's potential audience not being aware of the publisher they are buying games from?
How is this even possible?
Unless you are refering to digital distribution via Steam - because that seems to be quite a viable option for selling VN's by now.

Wasn't there a controversy about how certain dialogues/monologues have been translated in the demo of Princess Evangile?
Barely noticed it and don't really mind either, guess I will buy it nontheless, in case it gets hardcopy-released.

Actually, I wanted to say that I still insist on my opinion not being inferior to anyone elses, I was making a writing mistake.

Well, I acknowledge your opinion, but that doesn't mean to me that you or me are ''right'' or ''wrong'' about something.
I consider for myself what is ''good'' and what is ''bad'', I'm just taking other people's opinions as reference to make proper judges.
The opinions themselves are irrelevant to me, I just want to see the differences between my taste and the taste of others.
I noticed a lot of people being very self-opinionated.
Who knows, maybe I am as well, but that's the twist - I have my taste, others have theirs, and in the end, we all are just giving off our own impressions of these games.
There is neither right or wrong, but what an individual likes, or not.
I don't go around claiming to know extraordinary much about VN's, but if someone asks me about recommendations, I tell them just the kinds of games I like.
In the end, everybody probably does it like that, so I don't think anyone is right about anything in this aspect.
Simply a matter of interpretation, like pretty much everything else in this world.

An ''informed'' opinion doesn't matter anyways, because in the end, it is still just an opinion.
If you try your best acting all objective (even though pure objectivity doesn't exist and therefore obectivity at all) about a recommendation, or if you are all sloppy about it, it doesn't change the fact that it's an opinion.
How important said opinion is to the one you recommend it to is completely up to that person in the end, so it doesn't change a single bit if you are ''well-informed'', or not.
That's my opinion.
I'm sure a lot of people would disagree about it, but those can scram and have their own point of views about matters.
As long as I'm not being looked down on what I like and what I think, I'm perfectly fine and even encourage people to like and think what they think about VN's, or any other thing at all, as long as it doesn't lead to an outcome that affects my real-life directly.
(The holocaust is a great example of what I mean - hopefully, never does something like this happen again just because of a single individual going haywire).
Even if they are ''lacking perspective'', who could blame them, if these games aren't available here?
Of course they don't know anything about it, so I would approve of people randomly throwing off various types of games, see what appeals and slowly beginning establishing VN's as its own genre.
Telling people that certain titles are better than others just because one himself enjoyed them doesn't makes them a fact; it makes it, yet again, an opinion.
Of course, there are people that thought more about a matter than others - both opinions still are just that.
One should proof being ''right'' about something, but my argument is just that, if it comes to recommendations and the definition of ''good'' and ''bad'' VN's, no opinion is superior, or inferior.
That's what I think about the matter, in the end, Visual Novels are games like any other, and taste differs.
It's literally the same things I can come up with, because in the end, this is true; nobody can force considering a game to be ''good'' or ''bad'', so it's a matter of interpretation.
People coming with arguments like ''The writing style is superior to XX.'' would be the same thing as saying, that Mario Kart 8 is superior to Super Mario Kart because it is in 3D.
Some people however consider Super Mario Kart to be the better choice because of its flair, the soundtrack or any other aspect that makes it a game.
Opinions are equally meaningless, in my opinion.

By the way, not that you think we are having an argument or anything; I just enjoy writing extensively. :P

#66

"Wonder about what exactly?"

If Shining Star is actually making games or have just gone under like lots of other developers. I'm more inclined to want to support a developer if they're actively making games I want.


"How do you know so, the part about Mangagamer's potential audience not being aware of the publisher they are buying games from?"

I was making a very broad statement about eroge and visual novels in general having very low market penetrance. If we could somehow inject all the knowledge of VNs in my head into the heads of every person in the world, I think there would be a massive shitstorm orders of magnitude more customers. In Mangagamer's last survey, they noted that as many of 6% of the responders didn't even know Mangagamer existed prior to the poll. Oops.


"Wasn't there a controversy about how certain dialogues/monologues have been translated in the demo of Princess Evangile?

Barely noticed it and don't really mind either, guess I will buy it nontheless, in case it gets hardcopy-released."

Yes.


"deleting my account afterwards because of me coming to the conclusions of the userbase being a bunch of idiots that have no idea what they are talking about."

I noticed. I tried to grab your hand before you launched yourself off the cliff, but you kept going full-tilt. ^^;


I think being informed is important when trying to request Japanese games. It's different from deciding whether you want to spend $50 on a game that's already in English. You're asking a company to invest their time and money translating a game. Since you're probably not willing to personally spend tens of thousands of dollars to fund that localization effort, one should consider the title's general appeal to the Western market--you know, the people who will be asked to foot the bill in the end.


That's one of the reasons I post in threads like this--to add some perspective to these requests and shift the discussion from "Hey, I want to play this game!" to "Hey, this game seems like it'd appeal to a lot of people with X interest, and it's not impossible for known reasons either."




#67

@Dark_Shiki and AnimeloverxX93
Man, a lot of conversation happened here since I last looked! I really enjoyed reading the different points you two brought up in this tete-a-tete. There are two related themes in this that I’m hearing repeated several times in different iterations: the ideas of “variety vs critical excellence” (i.e. quality vs quantity) and how much a heavily-informed opinion should weigh against a moderately-informed one.

On the first point, if you absolutely have to pick between a market that offers high levels of variety versus a narrower one with consistently amazing quality, I honestly tilt a little toward the variety end of the spectrum. The truth is that I’m downright obsessed with novelty–novelty in themes, novelty in art styles, novelty in plot… and yeah, novelty in deviance once in a blue moon. While quality control is obviously important (especially in the “what do we license?” phase), I would rather see a field loose enough to let a few duds through just to make sure it wasn’t so restrictive that it inadvertently kept niche gems out. As with most other forms of entertainment, you’ve got a top 10% of classic-tier games everyone agrees is awesome, and you have a bottom 10-20% that everyone agrees is garbage. That still leaves a lot of room in the middle for things that will fall under the “different strokes for different folks” rule – and I’m not just talking about erotic turn-ons. Different people prefer different styles of gameplay and amounts of interactivity, and a game mechanic that might drive one person up the wall might be another’s new favorite thing. More variety lets everyone be happy, if not deliriously happy. ^_~

And that brings up point #2, about expertise…

#68

If I’m paraphrasing correctly, AnimeloverxX93 is saying that he has a right to his opinions, that all opinions are inherently equal, and (although no offense intended) he doesn’t care overmuch about anyone else’s judgment calls except as a casual recommendation. Dark_Shiki is saying that expertise is important and that being informed does make some opinions inherently superior, especially in a setting that calls for a high level of knowledge (ex. making suggestions about licensing in a largely unknown-to-the-West field). I don’t know if you can both be completely right, but for whatever it’s worth, I think you’re both “not wrong.”

Personally, my own level of knowledge about the Japanese VN market is severely limited by the simple fact that I barely speak a word of Japanese. (“Baka-baka desu ka, yaknowwutahmsayin…?”) I definitely fall into the category of bishoujo gamer who only knows what’s out there as it relates to something that already exists, be that another visual novel, anime, light novels, etc. For that reason, I count myself very lucky to have folks with your level of knowledge around, Dark_Shiki. You and a number of other users from the older forums have a knowledge of what’s out there (past, present, and on the horizon) that I can only sit back and envy. And appreciate! You guys help feed the novelty obsession I mentioned like professional chefs, and I’d be in a sad state in that regard if left entirely to my own devices.

With that said, the fact that we’re talking about entertainment makes your informed opinion less inherently a superior opinion in quite the same way it would if we were talking about brain surgery and you were a neurologist. Ultimately, all entertainment has to be judged by the rubric of personal enjoyment, that’s a subjective thing often blind to questions of big-picture objective quality. To go back to the food metaphor, Dark_Shiki, you’re a knowledgeable “foodie.” Your visual novel hamburger is likely to be a photogenic masterpiece made with Kobe beef, organic wheat buns, aged Tuscan cheese, and topped with truffles – because you know that great stuff is out there and know how to obtain it. Meanwhile, my ultimate visual novel hamburger is likely to be a generous-sized cheeseburger with fresh veggies, not-stale buns, and quality beef grilled just right from some “greasy spoon” diner I happened across and developed a thing for. Objectively, your pick would be the obvious choice for a magazine spread photo, but my burger is not bad. It makes me fat, happy, and completely satisfied! Call it “pearls before swine” if you want, but my pick filled me with just as much joy as if I had chowed down on yours with the more exotic ingredients picked from a broader selection of sources. I think this same line of thought can easily be carried over to many areas of entertainment, visual novels included.

There is also always the risk that an expert opinion may not align with mass opinion, and in the realm of sales, that’s hugely important. It can be worthwhile to solicit a broad base of opinion, even if the expertise is very uneven, in order to determine the zeitgeist of that irascible, fuzzy, subjective notion of what’s “entertaining.” One man’s opinion, however well-read, is still one man’s opinion in that arena.

So, all this long spiel to say, I’m seriously really glad many of you guys have the expertise to make informed suggestions, because for the most part, I got nuthin’. In the area of licensing, in particular, I read the suggestions with gratitude! Just keep in mind that “right” might as well not exist in matters of personal taste, so there’s no need to press that point too far.

#69

"On the first point, if you absolutely have to pick between a market that offers high levels of variety versus a narrower one with consistently amazing quality, I honestly tilt a little toward the variety end of the spectrum."

My argument is that when resources are limited, there's say... 300 hours of VN gameplay that can be officially released each year (I use hours as my metric instead of number of titles, since longer titles take more resources). I would prefer that those 300 hours of resources be used on a variety of top-tier titles than titles seemingly chosen at random with a dartboard. I'm in favor of a variety of titles representing the best of many genres. Whereas Mangagamer seems to follow a different philosophy of releasing a variety of games in terms not only of genres but quality as well. They're very interested in being able to offer cheap low-budget titles, whereas I think this choice cheapens their brand and slightly squanders resources that could be used on other projects.


The licensing philosophy I've outlined represents a simplified ideal, and completely ignores the reality that certain game types are not very profitable, and in some instances may need to be "subsidized" by sales of other games. I think this subsidization scheme is actually an integral part of Mangagamer's licensing strategy. They may or may not agree with the ideal I'm arguing for, but I think they're locked into their current strategy because releasing only top-tier titles could possibly bankrupt them. In the long term, I'm not sure which is the better business strategy, but JAST seems to have adopted a strategy that more resembles my ideal, at least for the time being.


I'm also ignoring the fact that neither Mangagamer or JAST can license whatever they want; they can only license what Japanese companies let them license. Since we have no particular knowledge of that limitation I ignore it for the sake of this argument.


To sum up, this isn't Apple (high quality, limited selection) vs. Android (large selection, variable quality), as you've implied. Limited resources make a large selection impossible to begin with--so quality is the only real differentiating factor (unless you start bringing average game length into the equation).

#70

"There is also always the risk that an expert opinion may not align with mass opinion, and in the realm of sales, that's hugely important. It can be worthwhile to solicit a broad base of opinion, even if the expertise is very uneven"

I think the problem here is that my opinion of others to judge what they like--in Japanese--is rather low. It's not so much that I'm saying that the opinion of others isn't as important, as I'm saying "You don't even know what you like." To use your food example, I like my gourmet burger, you like your fast food burger. Now we're looking for our next burger in a restaurant neither of us have been to. I read the menu, look at some pictures, and find what I want. You can't read, so you don't even bother opening the menu. You see a poster of a burger on the wall and say "I want that!" Do you really want that? Are you sure? Don't you think you should consider this a bit more?


(In a reality comparing myself to a gourmet chef is a bit ridiculous. I just know a little more than the average fan, that's all.)

#71

"Would just play it for the artwork anyways, just like with Imouto Paradise.

I doubt the latter has much to offer other than a bunch of ecchi moments which later result in intercourse, albeit being well-executed in my opinion."

Forgot to comment on this part. I regard Imouto Paradise as a solid licensing choice. It's exactly the sort of title I'd prefer Mangagamer release (instead of Softhouse-Seal and Hentai Industries shovelware). Quality nukige is still quality.

#72

@Dark_Shiki

Oh? I'm surprised you noticed me being active there.
After my rant in that thread, I directly got into IRC chat and asked Yorhel for the deletion of my account.
Seriously, why would I want you to lend me a hand in that regard?
I would have refused regardless, when being a lolicon and people being uninformed idiots simply stating things, yet some of them not even knowing the difference between ''Loli'' and ''Lolicon'', then why would I refrain from jumping in there, claiming something to be true and people blindly accepting it?
Everyone there did exactly the same thing, just acting all snobbish about it, even going as far as wording around my statements, mocking/ridiculing me.
How is that fair?
Self-righteous pricks, I have no business with people like that, and actully despise them.
This is partially of me being a misanthropist, but they had it coming.

Regarding the whole fast food analogy, Visual Novels are in the end a mix of game and book, or atleast feels like that to me.
This would fall under ''entertainment'' - what exactly entertains people is a thing on their own.
A title supposed to be ''the best of its class'' or ranging in the top 100 section of games isn't necessarily a game that appeals to someone who would rather play a trashy game because of that - the trash factor does entertain it, yet they don't find the ''good'' games that intriguing.
Both are assumed customers and add to the demografic of purchasers. I bought Boob Wars because I once played it, and as soon as I heard about it having a hardcopy release, I bought it.
The title is okay-ish; art has some flaws, the characters aren't that deep (as expected from this kind of game) and the whole scenario as well as background and plot of the game are cheesy as f***.
In the end, I enjoyed it, to a degree. It was so bad that it was good again.
Same with Go! Go! Nippon, albeit I sorta regret my purchase, because I just afterwards noticed it being incredibly bad - but not bad in the way of turning it funny again.

I also want to see bad titles being released.
Bad, bizarre, out of place... anything that isn't too hardcore or weird, yet is ''fun'', in a twisted way.
A neat game like Da Capo (from what I've heard about it, still need to play it), Shuffle, Imouto Paradise (btw, I wasn't intending to disregard of Imouto Paradise, I like it. It's just not anything too deep, that was my point.) and Littlewitch Romanesque is of course something I like as well, and am able to enjoy it and giving my a pleasant feel of satisfaction when buying such a good title and giving my money to a publisher well spent.
It's just that I don't always have the time or the desire to play something that is too big. I love these games for what they are and what concept they follow, but I also like something that unintentionally makes me burst out in laughter every once in a while (well, more like, making me smile vehemently).
These games aren't necessarily ''bad'' in that sense - from the quality in itself, it might be the case, yes, but in the end, a game is supposed to entertain the person that paid for it.
So, it does make its job in my case, so it isn't a bad game in my opinion.
That's why I always say ''in my opinion'' - because I can just speak for myself here, others might think keep thinking bad about a bad game regardless if it being... well, bad.
As long as I can entertain myself with a title I like, I'm satisfied, and what I personally want to see is what I recommend to publishers, when they are making polls and such.
My taste can't be that bad after all, seeing as Bishoujo Mangekyou and Marunomi actually do seem to be titles considered to be ''good'' by you as well, aside from opinions being just impressions of individuals, and by all means no indicator to the quality of something.

Well, what is here to say... I don't know as much as you about VN's, but I don't care the slightest bit either.
I'm glad you are not acting like a haughty idiot claiming to be a self-proclaimed expert like a bunch of other peoples that think of themselves as being the ultimate VN entity.
I'm allergic to morons. D:

(This can be considered a compliment by the way. :3)


@jacksprat1

Pretty much hits the nail on the spot.
I believe in equality.
I also hate it if women try to victimize themselves.
Things like the Anita Sarkeesian incident wouldn't exist then to begin with, if people wouldn't act like that, or get brain-washed into thinking that what some crazy feminists say would be the reality.

Well, who cares about the menu, if you already know where to go to?
If both sides visit the same restaurant, they don't do it for studying the menu, or to make improvements to what is being offered on it.
They do it to eat something and fill their stomach, so that's the only thing that matters.
And if it tastes well for them (which is the case, assuming they pick something that suits their taste), all the better.

I guess this is all that matters in the end. :)

#73

"Oh? I'm surprised you noticed me being active there."

I actually responded in that thread. I think you're demonizing them a bit. Everyone else just wanted to drop the subject but you kept pressing it until they snapped. That's, well, human. You are right that VNDB isn't a very friendly place. But considering what I've seen before, they were surprisingly tolerant. If they really wanted to be mean, they would've just called you a pedophile and been done with it. That happens all the time on more "mainstream" anime sites.


But well, what's done is done. Just realize that there's not too many places where you could've said what you did and no one would have criticized or silently thought badly of you (which can sometimes be worse, because you don't even have the chance to defend yourself in that case). I'm currently getting "ganged up on" in a thread on Mangagamer's forums, but well I bite the bullet and listen to what they have to say and try not to take it too personally.


"My taste can't be that bad after all, seeing as Bishoujo Mangekyou and Marunomi actually do seem to be titles considered to be ''good'' by you as well"

It's not really my taste vs. your taste. Often I just want people to be choosier. I think there's titles out there they'd like more (than what they currently play or are requesting), if only they had a chance to play them. This is why I think many companies don't pay much attention to threads like this. They realize that most customers don't really know what they want. It's amusing looking at Mangagamer's licensing surveys and seeing that the most highly requested titles are usually titles with fan translations. IMO, that doesn't reflect actual market demand, and interpreting it as such is really dangerous.


.

#74

You did?
I can't remember, but if you say it, I guess it's true.
I tried forgetting about this incident anyways.
Me demonizing them or not, if they half-heartedly try to cover an extremely sensitive topic as ''Lolicon'' and consider opinions of people not even knowing the most basic things about it, why would I sit tight?
If explaining someone what ''Lolicon'' means and I casually mention something like that (which I actually do, because it's not anything to be ashamed of to be a Lolicon - actual Pedophiles should) and redirecting to VNDB for a ''proper'' definition, what if people read an inaccurate or even incorrect definition like ''A Lolicon is someone being into female characters that appear to be underaged and/or have child-like appearance.''.
A definition like that would be fatal and very awkwardly worded, but then again, what am I expecting from VNDB?
It's a good place for looking up stuff, but it's anything but a community one would want to be part of and be happy about it.

Well, I don't care about what happened, I'm done with this.
It's simply humanity's ignorance at its best there, I hate these kinds of people that know nothing at all, yet claim to be right and ridicule others to act like being superior, even though it's quite obvious they are not.
I also don't care about how I expressed my opinion.
Maybe you have noticed when mentioning my previous comment about the non-existant difference between torrenting something and actual purchasing of a digitally-distributed title.
I was acting so bold on purpose and wanted to see how Jast's reaction would be like; a publisher that doesn't adress their customers' concerns and are trying to shut them up via moderators, also ignoring the cold harsh reality and how things like that most of the time work isn't a publisher that would deserve my money nor my support; I'm glad Jast didn't act like most others did, and by now, I'm slowly starting to prefer them over Mangagamer.
Not that their mods ever acted incorrectly (to me, they did atleast not), but I like talking here on a completely personal basis, not having to care too much about ''forum rules'' and other restricting stuff.
I'm a relatively intelligent person, if I do say so myself, so I know how to behave and what kinds of comments might cause an uproar.
I tend to avoid being like that - either that, or I don't care about the consequences.
So, I didn't get banned for my torrent-related comment, I'm still accepted here as a user without getting any warnings nor any other disadvantages and people didn't act like jerk to me for said comment - I couldn't be any more happy about this kind of sense for community, both, regarding the owner of this forum and the current userbase alike. :)

Mhh, well, I have to say, why not letting them like what they want to enjoy for themselves?
As long as you yourself get the kinds of games you prefer as well, there isn't much of a problem, isn't there?
I can see where you are coming from though, sharing your own hobby and therefore, partially preferences is something everyone wants to do, intentionally, or unintentionally, to relate to these people.
It's not that important (anymore) to me personally though.
The same phenomenon can be observed taking a look at ''regular'' western games; Pokemon is incredibly crappy by now, and they even have the nerve to cross a JRPG with a simplistic Beat 'em Up.
Pokemon was never intended to be a dull fighting game.
Sure, it's a sidegame and not part of the main series , but since when did we need abominations like that?
Pokemon Snap was a great example of how to execute this kind of sidegame (I totally forgot the right name for what I mean, sorry about that) well enough to make it appealing and actually benefit the franchise; 3D was something relatively new here, and you could see ''your beloved Pokemon in 3D from an ego perspective'', so that was its main selling point and it actually made the kids say ''Wow! :o'' back then.
''Pokken'' as it is called on another hand is just... well, a mess of great-looking graphics.
Nothing more.

Did I mention before that I tend to derail?
...No?
Okay...

The point is, as much as I despise this game, it appeals to an audience that I'm not being targeted for.
There are other games to enjoy... which is why I play Visual Novels instead of this crap. :P
As long as everyone gets the kinds of games he/she wants, it's all good, I think, no matter what they choose.

I agree about the fantranslation part.
I mean, who would bother playing a game he doesn't understand its language from?
People simply wait for something good to be released, so it becomes a standard for them.
If ''bad'' games get released in theory and people would consider them to be ''good'' because they don't know it any better, wouldn't sales increase if an actual decent title like Seinarukana would make it to the west as well?
Maybe, sales would increase immensely by implying that this specific title is ''something outstanding'' compared to these supposed ''good'' games.
The only downside would be that mainly these ''trashy, yet funny'' sort of games would be released.
I'm fine with that, but it would be sorta unfair to others. Also, it would become boring very quickly.

It's just too complicated to think about, I'm a customer, not someone who leads a company.
I will let others mess around with these kinds of decisions and considerations; I give my money to the games I enjoy and am done with it, after playing them, of course. :)

#75

@Dark_Shiki

I just read about the incident Doddler is involved in (or rather, am in the process of reading it all up)... I actually wanted to purchase Imouto Paradise, but I'm not sure if I really should do that.
We don't know what exactly he bought, but I wonder if I should really purchase this title now... I live in Germany, so I guess we are pretty indifferent in comparison to other countries, but what can I do about it?
It's pretty frustrating to read, actually. :/
Is it really safe to buy it now, what do you think?

#76

I don't know anything in particular about the laws in Germany, but according to ChaosRaven there's no laws against lolicon. I can't read German so I'm not a good source of info on this, sorry.


If you're really worried, get the download version instead. It'll attract less scrutiny.


Doddler lives in Canada, which has strict laws against obscenity of multiple types, including lolicon. The harshest laws of all are in Australia, yet even there there's people there who import eroge of all types with impunity.

#77

Hmm, I stumbled across ChaosRaven's comments as well after posting here... from what I can read out of the paragraph, it does seem like it's safe to import fictional 2D loli material.
As long as I don't push it... hmm, then again, I'm just interested in some of Shining Star's doujin games and all games of Bakery (which are how many, three, four at max?).
Maybe I should go for Hoshizora no Memoria first though.
Dang, I love this game. :3
But whatver, still thank you for telling me about me being apparently able to import such works of fiction without having to face any consequences, unless I'm pushing the situation (which I have no desire in doing so).
Not a problem if you can't speak German, still thanks. :)

Well, like I said, I'm anything but pleased with digital downloads.
Like I said, there isn't much of a difference to me if I buy it digitally, or get it by other means.
If it's just on my harddrive, I will lose it sooner or later. :/
As a hardcopy, none of my games will vanish; never sold a single game I owned, I just love videogames too much for doing such a thing, even the ones that I didn't really enjoyed playing.

Australia is a thing on its own... I heard that even real-life pornography with adult, but flatchested actresses is prohibited in Australia.
That's nuts.

#78

dont worry bout playing imopara in germany. its definitely and absolutely legal for you. as long as it stays fiction & the girls there are clearly not children anymore, there’s nothing you could be pursued for.

#79

Well, I was hardly concerned about ImoPara, but more about Marunomi and Break Panic, the former by Bakery, the latter by Shining Star.
Regardless of if the characters look like ''children'', or not, how could a drawing resemble a human being?
Doesn't matter, as long as it is based on fiction and obviously not resembling realistically situations, so even then, what could they try to pursue here?
Something that isn't there.
The characters in Marunomi are as far as I know not children anymore, they are adolescents, if I remember correctly, visiting college.
Maybe even adults? I'm not sure, the loli term can also apply to appearance after all, so why would I even bother?
There is no difference between loli and pettanko to me, other than loli characters tending to act more cute and stuff, so I don't mind either.
I really wonder when all this witch hunting for imaginary ''children'' is going to end.
Just why is humanity as dumb as shit, tell me, guys. >_>

#80

I'll put a vote in for princess-maker type games, monmusu/mahou bishoujo gakuen-type stuff, yuri, TF... some great stuff being done in RenPy these days, a pity a lot of it is fanart/doujinshi and probably cannot be officially licenced due to copyright infringement risk.. (e.g. Akabur's Witch Trainer, Magic Shop, Princess Trainer - that's some of the best stuff! :-)


@animeloverxX93 - I hear ya, humanity loves to overreact, and hysterical vocal minority/lobby groups will always overrule common sense, with no understanding of psychological factors.
Never mind that the real issues which lead to actual abuse are not being addressed, and that those who enjoy positions of power can do whatever they want so long as they pay off the right people to keep it quiet.