Next CROWD game Peach Princess should take?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#121

SB-san, you’re confusing me with Kagami-san… He was the one who played to “Obbligato”… And in the chat you attributed to Kagami-san some of my sayings…
wonders if being confused with Kagami-san is a good or a bad thing…

About endings.
Endings where you get a glance at the future and know what become of you and the one you love are indeed my (second) favourite kind of endings… After all, declaring or accepting your feelings to your beloved is but the very beginning or a successful relationship. Many obstacles will come and a happily starting love story can just cease to be some months or years later.
So, seeing your happily married couple years later (with kids ) gives a better feeling of happy ending IMO. Of course, that does not necessarily imply a happy life until death parts you, but…
One favourite ren’ai game series of mine (no name, but regulars from the chat can probably guess ) contains many endings of this kind… and one ending which is probably my favourite (though there may be ex-aequo) among all endings in the ren’ai games I played (granted, I didn’t play that many though), where you know for sure your whole life was filled with happiness and love. #^_^#
The second way to give that kind of insight is through sequels. The “Pia Carrot” series is famous for that, of course. In Pia2, you see your character from Pia1 marrying the main girl from Pia1. And in Pia3, you can see her pregnant! And the toybox just shows that getting an happy ending with her in Pia1 doesn’t ensure you happily staying by her side the rest of your life, but in fact shows the many problem a couple may encounter (though it was his fault, granted)! (People who played the toybox know what I mean )

Of course, there is another way to ensure you died the heart filled with reciprocal love, though: to kill yourself and your beloved, while still young and in love.
My favourite kind of ending in a love story. Too bad it’s so rare in ren’ai game…
Too bad. After all, when the sin is love, death should be the redemption, right?
And a pure and beautiful love should be sinful.

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 10-29-2002).]

#122
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Snow Drop is as I said rather trickish, through, and I don't know if I remember the path I took to get Shizuka...

You might look at the goddesses webpage for my hintbook, how to get to the 'other' fourth day, if you need some help to get back on track.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Actually, since Makoto-san said that she liked Takayuki the way he was, I don't think he turned much less lazy after they got into their relationship.

Allright, but that was a Takayuki, that already wasn't that lazy anymore (for example: not sticking to clean the bath, but helping shopping), so some education from Makoto-sans side worked, before she could say, she liked him the way he was.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Of course, her Happy ending is another matter..

Yes, and for some reason, I prefer this ending to her best ending. It's simply the Makoto-san, we know, even if she is also a bit more gentle...
** Heavy SPOILERS **
(compared to the Jojo-trick or the suggested stomach-surgery)
** Heavy SPOILERS end **


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
I think I see, althrough hieroglyphs seems kinda different, in a sense ^^;.

Just because they look more egyptian, while kanji look more chinese? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/confused.gif[/img]

Kanji as hieroglyphs work the same way: They are symbolös with a meaning. Hieroglyphs might look more familiar, because they are less abstract, but this depends also a bit on the culture, you come from.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, so these radical kanji kind of decides what meaning a sentence has?

Still not quite. They help you memorizing the other Kanjjis meanings by building memorizing phrases (even if some of them sound ridiculous, like the drowned sheep).
Human memory usually works with associations, so if you see two or more radicals connected and you build a sentence, that connected the radicals meaning with the whole Kanjis meaning, you have found a phrase to memorize the Kanji and you had only to learn to distinguish the 200 patterns and meanings of the radicals.
This works at least for the meaning-part of the Kanji. The pronounciation is another, more difficult matter.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
I suspect that that is, and will always be, a weakness/flaw about SIMs, both slave-training SIMs and other sims too.

Exactly. And because of this reason, I think, it was one great Idea to replace the simple repetition by an animated SD-graphic in Blood Royal, even if I am not that convinced regarding the rest of the game.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
I don't think I've ever brought a game I throught was bad, but of course, some of these have been better than others in my opinion.

Oh, I just did: Viper Limited! If I hadn't gotten Viper Paradice in the same package, I might have decided to ignore anything that starts with "Viper" from that day on.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Actually, as far as I remember, he said that the Chisae-part were the best part of the game, it was the other parts he didn't like.. but I suppose that it is like you said anyway: A matter of opinion, since you yourself seems to have liked the other parts better.

Ooops. So I still haven't understood him and his ren'ai point including his argument, that SIMs are too few story-based.
On the other hand, I have not yet played through the best path for Chisae, so maybe her story could surpass Ioris...

#123
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
*wonders if being confused with Kagami-san is a good or a bad thing...*

Well, it's better than being confused with me, right? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]


quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Many obstacles will come and a happily starting love story can just cease to be some months or years later.
So, seeing your happily married couple years later (with kids [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]) gives a better feeling of happy ending IMO.

Exactly. This is the best hint of a relationship that really worked out (and that are nowadays that scarce. That's why we long for this kind of experience in the games.).


quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Of course, there is another way to ensure you died the heart filled with reciprocal love, though: to kill yourself and your beloved, while still young and in love. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Oooops. Fatalistic, aren't we? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/redface.gif[/img]


quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
After all, when the sin is love, death should be the redemption, right?
And a pure and beautiful love should be sinful.

... (Can't say much to it, but I have to compliment you on your philosophic qualities (that's no joke!))

#124
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Well, it's better than being confused with me, right? ;p
Not sure. Kagami-sama is the OtaKING! And I wouldn't want people to think I'm anywhere near being an otaku, since I'm not! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
quote:
Exactly. This is the best hint of a relationship that really worked out (and that are nowadays that scarce. That's why we long for this kind of experience in the games.).
*shrugs* IMHO, people nowadays long for too much, that's why they succeed so little. It would be less scarce if people just wouldn't put it so high...
quote:
Oooops. Fatalistic, aren't we? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/redface.gif[/img]
No. Realistic. Nothing is eternal, except death. To immortalize anything, you have to kill/destroy it while it was at the peak of its glory/beautifulness/purity/brightness. It is just what societies and people just do: they kill what they hate most but also what they love and worship most. To immortalize it forever. Just like you catch, kill and expose the sooo beautiful butterfly; to preserve its beauty. And, thus, a love so pure, innocent and beautiful it should be a story, a tale, a legend, should end a way people would remember it forever: tragically.
Perhaps because it was too pure for this world.
Or, most surely, because it is a sin to the eyes of everyone and the society, to have anything everyone would profess to wish for and knows deeply he can't ever get.
quote:
... (Can't say much to it, but I have to compliment you on your philosophic qualities (that's no joke!))
Thanks. But it's just called "cynism". Just look around you: happy ending love stories ("and they happily live forever and have many children") are faery tales for children, while tragically ending love stories ("Tristan and Iseult", "Romeo and Juliet", "The Sorrows of Young Werther") are reference stories for grown-ups...
#125
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Nothing is eternal, except death. To immortalize anything, you have to kill/destroy it while it was at the peak of its glory/beautifulness/purity/brightness.

Eeeehm. Sorry, but I have to disagree: If the spark of live is removed, that illuminated this beauty from within, only the shadows of that what might have been remains and the original beauty is destroyed.
(O.K., so you might call me a philosopher or poet myself if you want...)


quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
It is just what societies and people just do: they kill what they hate most but also what they love and worship most.

And just because everybody acts this way, it's allright?
(... and here comes the rebel within me ...)
(... on the other hand, you talked about realism and in fact, this might be the way things are ...)


quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Just like you catch, kill and expose the sooo beautiful butterfly; to preserve its beauty.

Urrrgh! You just had to mention the things, I hate to see each year on our christmas-market... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]


quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
But it's just called "cynism".

The idea, you expressed, might have been cynism, but you put it a philosophic way.

And that's the same olf_le_fol, who thought his english is not good enough to publish his reviews to a bigger audience (if I for this moment forget about your other valid points, you raised in this matter).

#126
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
SB-san, you're confusing me with Kagami-san... He was the one who played to "Obbligato"... And in the chat you attributed to Kagami-san some of my sayings...
*wonders if being confused with Kagami-san is a good or a bad thing...*

EEP! Terribly Sorry, olf-san! I'll do my best to notr repat it agian (and Kagami, if you are redaign this, I'm terribly sorry for confusing you with Olf -_- [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]. I think I confused both of you since you were the oens I've talked the msot with in the chat... Besides, you ARE similar in some ways [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

quote:
The second way to give that kind of insight is through sequels. The "Pia Carrot" series is famous for that, of course. In Pia2, you see your character from Pia1 marrying the main girl from Pia1. And in Pia3, you can see her pregnant! And the toybox just shows that getting an happy ending with her in Pia1 doesn't ensure you happily staying by her side the rest of your life, but in fact shows the many problem a couple may encounter (though it was his fault, granted)! (People who played the toybox know what I mean)

That avout Pia Carrot sounds intereting [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (now I got more interersted in XC2, since that is a sequel ^^). So basically, in the beginning of the two sequel, the main character is together with er, but he may still get into a relationship with another (or SHE may) at any time?

quote:
Of course, there is another way to ensure you died the heart filled with reciprocal love, though: to kill yourself and your beloved, while still young and in love.

... Why do I suddenly suspect that you might be a fan of Bonnie and Clyde?

quote:
My favourite kind of ending in a love story. Too bad it's so rare in ren'ai game...
Too bad. After all, when the sin is love, death should be the redemption, right?
And a pure and beautiful love should be sinful.

Hmm, never encountered such an ending, and I'm not too sure if I'd want to ^^;. Then again, some of the bad endings in Snow Drop are kind of like that ^^;;;. Then, again, if I do indeed learn japanese and gets deeper into the bishoujo&renai genre, I think that I'll encounter such an ending sooner or later...

quote:
No. Realistic. Nothing is eternal, except death

"THERE IS NO JUSTICE. THERE IS JUST ME", as the Death usually say (In the Discworld novels [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

quote:
Thanks. But it's just called "cynism". Just look around you: happy ending love stories ("and they happily live forever and have many children") are faery tales for children, while tragically ending love stories ("Tristan and Iseult", "Romeo and Juliet", "The Sorrows of Young Werther") are reference stories for grown-ups...

True enough that those gives a more true image of how reality works. But if all stories were like that, people would feel like there was no hope (no dreams = no hope) and therefore, stories with happy endings are created as much for children as for adults. Except for the fact that there is fewer "Happy ever after"; instead it has changed to just "happy", since no one knows what may happen later in the relationship... And that is the kinds of endings we often see in the games we all are playing and love so much [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

#127
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
You might look at the goddesses webpage for my hintbook, how to get to the 'other' fourth day, if you need some help to get back on track.

I'll do that if I get struck... But first, I'll see what I can remember... Actually, I made a "map" that was pretty much like that ine, but I don't know if I still have it or if I threw it away...

quote:
Allright, but that was a Takayuki, that already wasn't that lazy anymore (for example: not sticking to clean the bath, but helping shopping), so some education from Makoto-sans side worked, before she could say, she liked him the way he was.

True, Makoto-san had to give him soem education before she coudlt ruly dare tos ay that [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Still, I really wonder how much less lazy he actually became.. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]. After all, in that ending the inn is closed down, so... Hmm, he might have bceome more responsible, but not less lazy [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

quote:
Yes, and for some reason, I prefer this ending to her best ending. It's simply the Makoto-san, we know, even if she is also a bit more gentle...
** Heavy SPOILERS **
(compared to the Jojo-trick or the suggested stomach-surgery)
** Heavy SPOILERS end **

Yeah, Makoto acts much more like herself; in the best ending, she's the kind, calm housewife [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img], and in the happy ending, she's the same energic Makoto-san, but a little more gentle (and this is a Makoto-san in love, of course! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]). But I wonder if the Best ending means that she left him at a further point? After all, it seems like you get the best ending only if she trusts you 100%, and the Happy hints at that she didn't do that, so it's may be like this:
The Happy ending: Makoto-san & Takayuki started a relationship but separated for some reason later...
THe Best ending: Makoto-san & Takayuki started a relationship that held until the inn closed down, and after that they married (wonder how Makoto-san would look in a wedding dress.. *drool*), opened a resturant (if I remember correctly) and got a daughter...

quote:
Just because they look more egyptian, while kanji look more chinese?

Kanji as hieroglyphs work the same way: They are symbolös with a meaning. Hieroglyphs might look more familiar, because they are less abstract, but this depends also a bit on the culture, you come from.

Well, Hierogylphs are more like pictures thna anything else while the symbols looks more like... err, bird tracks? *prepares to get killed*. Well don't know much about those are read, but I read some of the basics of how you read them, and that is basically that every picture is a single word in itself, but since for example a picture of an eye may mean just "eye", it's somewhat simple. On the other hand, if you see an eye and some wawes (that means "water"), it may mean "Crying", or soemthing like that [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Also, hierogylps are soemtimes like reading a picture saga, so it isn't all THAT hard to understand their meaning, from what I've heard...

quote:
Still not quite. They help you memorizing the other Kanjjis meanings by building memorizing phrases (even if some of them sound ridiculous, like the drowned sheep). Human memory usually works with associations, so if you see two or more radicals connected and you build a sentence, that connected the radicals meaning with the whole Kanjis meaning, you have found a phrase to memorize the Kanji and you had only to learn to distinguish the 200 patterns and meanings of the radicals.
This works at least for the meaning-part of the Kanji. The pronounciation is another, more difficult matter.

I see, so the radicals are more of a "help"? Interesting... The pronounciation part, however, is something I'm not very worried about, through, since I don't think I'll have much use for spoken japanese ^^;;...

quote:
Exactly. And because of this reason, I think, it was one great Idea to replace the simple repetition by an animated SD-graphic in Blood Royal, even if I am not that convinced regarding the rest of the game.

Well, game companies do get bright ideas now and then [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. I wonder if this might have been a part of why Blood Royal was so successful...

quote:
Oh, I just did: Viper Limited! If I hadn't gotten Viper Paradice in the same package, I might have decided to ignore anything that starts with "Viper" from that day on.

You were lucky, then [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. So how is Viper Paradice?

quote:
Ooops. So I still haven't understood him and his ren'ai point including his argument, that SIMs are too few story-based.
On the other hand, I have not yet played through the best path for Chisae, so maybe her story could surpass Ioris...

I'm sorry for confusing him with Olf ^^;. But actually, I don't think it was a matter of endings... Rather, in his opinion the other characters in Obbligato, besides the main character and Chisae felt more like "bonus characters" than anything else, and that was why he didn't really like it. From what I remember, he thinks that either, Crowd should have released the game without the other characters, leaving Chisae as the onlty "purseable" character, or that they had focused more on the girls, perhaps as much as on Chisae...

But his argument "Few sims being story-based", that I might understand, since a SIM may ge too focused on the gameplay part instead of the story part. But of course, that is not true for ALL sims; a carefully done SIM can have a story as good as any good ADV (if that's what he's comparing the SIMS to).

#128
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Eeeehm. Sorry, but I have to disagree: If the spark of live is removed, that illuminated this beauty from within, only the shadows of that what might have been remains and the original beauty is destroyed.
(O.K., so you might call me a philosopher or poet myself if you want...)
*shrugs* Just stating a fact. People are more remembered when dying at the top of their glory than when calmly dying in their bed of old age...
That's how heroes and martyrs alike are made.
quote:
And just because everybody acts this way, it's allright?
I didn't say it is alright (I never give moral position, for I believe you shouldn't judge but yourself; History should be the judge for what is right or wrong, not men). I was just stating a point.
quote:
The idea, you expressed, might have been cynism, but you put it a philosophic way.
It is said: "You can learn a lot by reading a philosophy book, even more by discussing with the philosopher, but you can't ever learn more than by watching a man live." Hence by living your life. I didn't say anything philosophical; just talking from my point of view from my personal experience.
quote:
And that's the same olf_le_fol, who thought his english is not good enough to publish his reviews to a bigger audience
Until the day I can read my favourites authors in English and think in English the way they write, I'll consider myself mediocre in English.
#129
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, he might have bceome more responsible, but not less lazy

Responsibility and lazyness could only mix one way: solving the tasks at hand in a more efficient manner (ignoring any task = irresponsiblity, inefficient working = negative/foolish opposite of lazyness). And this would be a solution, all three (Makoto-san, Ayumi-chan and Ume-san as well) surely would approve...


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
(wonder how Makoto-san would look in a wedding dress.. *drool*)

Perhaps, you should have added "wedding dresses" to your poll? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Hmmm. Some of them really have nice bows...


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
but since for example a picture of an eye may mean just "eye", it's somewhat simple. On the other hand, if you see an eye and some wawes (that means "water"), it may mean "Crying", or soemthing like that

Eeeehm. Birdprints? No, I am not going to kill you, just add some examples, using your example from the hieroglyphs in order to give you a base for a comparison:
The eye-radical looks like a box, separated by two horizontal lines into three equally-sized layers (=the upper and lower eyelid + the opening between them).
The water-radical does not look like a waveline, but like a fountain.
The standing-radical looks like a big standing flowerpot.

The crying-Kanji consists of the water-radical and the standing radical with the memorizing phrase: "Water falls, because you are standing alone" (=tears drop).

Doesn't this match with your example of hieroglyphs a bit?
The "birdprints"-impression results from the way, you expect how things should be drawn. The first time, I saw the eye-radical, I was also puzzled. But the reason for this puzzlement comes from our cultural background that let's us expect some things to be symbolized one particular way and the kanji come from another cultural background.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
I see, so the radicals are more of a "help"?

If you think of a help for learning the remaining 1680 other Kanji: yes.
But the radicals are also Kanji themselves with a single meaning and at least two pronounciations. But I think they are the minimal set of Kanji, that have to be memorized the same way as the kana and then build a bridge to the remaining Yoyo-Kanji.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
So how is Viper Paradice?

This game target directly at me: It is a bishoujo-boardgame that should be played as a "hunter and collector". Maybe, it looses some of it's appeal, after I have collected all 19 Viper-movies, but until then, it is going to give me some hours of fun. I am going to write a review about it next weekend. I think, the goddess doesn't mind if I mail this review to you, the same time, I mail it to her (if you are interested...).


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Rather, in his opinion the other characters in Obbligato, besides the main character and Chisae felt more like "bonus characters" than anything else, and that was why he didn't really like it.

Ah, Kagami-sama! That's indeed another story, because he might have a completely other attitude regarding SIMs. So he might have been disappointed of the other girls, because they have not the training-SIM that is part of the Chisae-scenario. (As told before, I can't compare right now the Chisae-storyline and happy-ending to Ioris.)

I know, olf-san prefers ADVs and even more NVLs, because they have a more consistent storyline than SIMs.

#130
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
EEP! Terribly Sorry, olf-san! I'll do my best to notr repat it agian (and Kagami, if you are redaign this, I'm terribly sorry for confusing you with Olf -_- [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]. I think I confused both of you since you were the oens I've talked the msot with in the chat... Besides, you ARE similar in some ways [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
*Wonders how he should take that*
In doubt...
*Hits Spectator-san with a baka hammer*
I am NOT an otaku!
quote:
That avout Pia Carrot sounds intereting [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (now I got more interersted in XC2, since that is a sequel ^^). So basically, in the beginning of the two sequel, the main character is together with er, but he may still get into a relationship with another (or SHE may) at any time?
No, you played different characters in each game, but it's all happening in the same world, so you get to know what happened to the "old" characters (except Shouko-chan! *cries* What becomes of Shouko-chan?)
quote:
True enough that those gives a more true image of how reality works. But if all stories were like that, people would feel like there was no hope (no dreams = no hope) and therefore, stories with happy endings are created as much for children as for adults.
Except for the fact that there is fewer "Happy ever after"; instead it has changed to just "happy", since no one knows what may happen later in the relationship... And that is the kinds of endings we often see in the games we all are playing and love so much
I don't think any love romance which ends well ever have the level of success of love romance which ends tragically....
And I don't agree with you, Spectator-san. Just look around: what people like in love stories are the problems the lovers encounters, not just they happily living. "What is love if not painful and tragic? It's just boring." as I said in my .sig
What people like are stories where love is put to trials, the harder, the better. They like stories in which the plot is building such that there can only be a tragic ending, but where glimpse of hope for a happy ending always is present: their mind know the ending will be tragic but their heart&soul pray for a happy. Each victory for the lovers only makes them closer to the tragic ending. Fate. And so the readers continue to read. Fascination.

And I think what inspires people is the depiction of pure love itself, not the way it ends.
A dream is attractive because it can't be reached. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Well, in my humble opinion, of course. ^_^

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 10-29-2002).]

#131
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Responsibility and lazyness could only mix one way: solving the tasks at hand in a more efficient manner (ignoring any task = irresponsiblity, inefficient working = negative/foolish opposite of lazyness). And this would be a solution, all three (Makoto-san, Ayumi-chan and Ume-san as well) surely would approve...

Yeah,.. But then,a gain, they approved of almsot anything that made Takayuki work, if even a little [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img].

quote:
Perhaps, you should have added "wedding dresses" to your poll?
Hmmm. Some of them really have nice bows...

Yeah, perhaps I should have... curses!

quote:
Eeeehm. Birdprints? No, I am not going to kill you, just add some examples, using your example from the hieroglyphs in order to give you a base for a comparison:
The eye-radical looks like a box, separated by two horizontal lines into three equally-sized layers (=the upper and lower eyelid + the opening between them).
The water-radical does not look like a waveline, but like a fountain.
The standing-radical looks like a big standing flowerpot.

The crying-Kanji consists of the water-radical and the standing radical with the memorizing phrase: "Water falls, because you are standing alone" (=tears drop).

Doesn't this match with your example of hieroglyphs a bit?
The "birdprints"-impression results from the way, you expect how things should be drawn. The first time, I saw the eye-radical, I was also puzzled. But the reason for this puzzlement comes from our cultural background that let's us expect some things to be symbolized one particular way and the kanji come from another cultural background.

Well, I wrote wrong - I meant "Bird tracks" ^^;;. But the example you set does sound a little like the example I wrotte [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. and as for cultural thins - Well, language differences is just one side of the cultural differences we encounter, if we think of those in the way of our own culture ^^;;.

quote:
If you think of a help for learning the remaining 1680 other Kanji: yes.
But the radicals are also Kanji themselves with a single meaning and at least two pronounciations. But I think they are the minimal set of Kanji, that have to be memorized the same way as the kana and then build a bridge to the remaining Yoyo-Kanji.

I see... So these are the first Kanji you should learn?

quote:
This game target directly at me: It is a bishoujo-boardgame that should be played as a "hunter and collector". Maybe, it looses some of it's appeal, after I have collected all 19 Viper-movies, but until then, it is going to give me some hours of fun. I am going to write a review about it next weekend. I think, the goddess doesn't mind if I mail this review to you, the same time, I mail it to her (if you are interested...)..

Well, that's okay ^_^. i'll have to clean my mailbox soon... it's starting to get full... Hmm, when will my prayer (e-mail) get answered by the lovely Goddess? T_T.

quote:
Ah, Kagami-sama! That's indeed another story, because he might have a completely other attitude regarding SIMs. So he might have been disappointed of the other girls, because they have not the training-SIM that is part of the Chisae-scenario. (As told before, I can't compare right now the Chisae-storyline and happy-ending to Ioris.)

That's perhaps the case. Or he might just have another reason for feeling that way...
But if the fact that you only can "train" Chisae is what bothers Kagami-san, then I kinda understand him ^^;. I mean, the game have potiental for more, so why didn't they sue that potiental as well? Kinda seems like a bad move or a waste in my eyes... The game might still be great, by juding your impressions, but I wonder if this game wouldn't have been better if there had been some way to "train" or simply "Charm" (now, doesn't that sound interesting? you get the chance to train a girl and woo the three others [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]) them...

quote:
I know, olf-san prefers ADVs and even more NVLs, because they have a more consistent storyline than SIMs.

Yeah, kind of, I suppose...

#132
quote:
I don't think any love romance which ends well ever have the level of success of love romance which ends tragically.... [snip]

There is a fusion of the two which is called a bittersweet ending. Although, I think the recent games have spawned another type of ending which I dub the bitter bittersweet ending. This is my favorite type of ending.

#133
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
*Wonders how he should take that*
In doubt...
*Hits Spectator-san with a baka hammer*
I am NOT an otaku!

...perhaps it's just me, but maybe you should try denying that without referring to a Japanese idiom?

#134
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
*Wonders how he should take that*
In doubt...
*Hits Spectator-san with a baka hammer*
I am [b]NOT an otaku! [/b]

Ouch! you didn't have to hit me! but, yes, you ARE similar!Two sides of a coin! Besides, if you're not the Otakking, you must be the otakprince [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

quote:
No, you played different characters in each game, but it's all happening in the same world, so you get to know what happened to the "old" characters (except Shouko-chan! *cries* What becomes of Shouko-chan?)

I see, so it's nothing like in XC2, where you're the same character as before [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Interesting point fo view, through...

quote:
I don't think any love romance which ends well ever have the level of success of love romance which ends tragically....
And I don't agree with you, Spectator-san. Just look around: what people like in love stories are the problems the lovers encounters, not just they happily living. "What is love if not painful and tragic? It's just boring." as I said in my .sig
What people like are stories where love is put to trials, the harder, the better. They like stories in which the plot is building such that there can only be a tragic ending, but where glimpse of hope for a happy ending always is present: their mind know the ending will be tragic but their heart&soul pray for a happy. Each victory for the lovers only makes them closer to the tragic ending. Fate. And so the readers continue to read. Fascination.
And I think what inspires people is the depiction of pure love itself, not the way it ends.
A dream is attractive because it can't be reached

Well, in my humble opinion, of course. ^_^

HMm, You may be tright in the fact that people love tragic love stories, but at the same time, in MY humble opinion, people put much belief in the "Happy ending" thing, for what would life be wothout that? If people jsut pursed love for the tragic things about it, not the love itself (and thus, the hope for an "Happy" ending of the story), then what would be the while meaning of it? *sleepy*

#135
quote:
Originally posted by Quasi Dogma:
There is a fusion of the two which is called a bittersweet ending. Although, I think the recent games have spawned another type of ending which I dub the bitter bittersweet ending. This is my favorite type of ending.

Can you give us an example of this?

#136
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
I see... So these are the first Kanji you should learn?

That is one first structured approach.
However, it helps if you weave a web of accociations in learning, that also includes the radicals.
The course, I use works this way:
It gives me each block 32 radicals and 32 composed Kanji, that use the new radicals as well as radicals, that have been introduced in earlier blocks. In this manner, the radicals are used to build a mind-bridge for the other Kanji, but the memorizing phrases of the other Kanji also repeat the meaning of the used radicals and thus they mutually help to build a web of associations.

#137
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
That is one first structured approach.
However, it helps if you weave a web of accociations in learning, that also includes the radicals.
The course, I use works this way:
It gives me each block 32 radicals and 32 composed Kanji, that use the new radicals as well as radicals, that have been introduced in earlier blocks. In this manner, the radicals are used to build a mind-bridge for the other Kanji, but the memorizing phrases of the other Kanji also repeat the meaning of the used radicals and thus they mutually help to build a web of associations.

Hmm, ok [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Going to buy some textbooks or so in some days, if I can (ouch! my pocket hurts!), but Kagami were kind enough to give me a link to a very useful page [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. among other things, you can practice how to writte Hiragana there, and since it's those I'm trying to memorise now, it's extremly useful...

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 10-30-2002).]

#138
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Can you give us an example of this?

Kana's best ending can be considered a bittersweet ending.

A bitter bittersweet ending is merely a bittersweet ending with a lot more angst ^^;;

#139

[message deleted at the request of the original poster]

[This message has been edited by Quasi Dogma (edited 10-31-2002).]

#140
quote:
Originally posted by Quasi Dogma:
Kana's best ending can be considered a bittersweet ending.

A bitter bittersweet ending is merely a bittersweet ending with a lot more angst ^^;;

You mean like ending 6? (Kana)