Official Post about Shiny Days

JAST Games Game Discussions
#141

@Tototo - " If someone would get in trouble for Shiny days they would get in trouble for little witch and saya no uta. "


I believe Shiny Days was translated with the help of Sekai Project, and it was their staff who had problems with the content of Shiny Days. I'm assuming Little Witch was translated by someone else, someone on JASTs roster?


@Animelover - "Titles like Saya no Uta and Littlewitch Romanesque are perfectly legal; otherwise, I doubt Peter would have considered localizing them,"


Please qualify sentences like that with "in America only." This is the law in Australia:

"child pornography material" means:

(a) material that depicts a person, or a representation of a person, who is, or appears to be, under 18 years of age and who:

Paragraph (a) of the definition deals with ‘depictions' and is intended to cover all visual images, both still and motion, including representations of children, such as cartoons or animation.


The "appears to be" part of the legislation is what screws LittleWitch here.

#142

I didn't need to import Littlewitch Romanesque. Since I know a UK distributor who deals with that hassle and so far they have been golden for me.

https://www.up1.co.uk/Details/C2182-Girlish+Grimoire+Littlewitch+Romanesque+DVD-ROM+Game+Windows+Adult

Same with Saya No Uta. I wish more games were available this way since it avoids import fees and trouble for individual consumers and they likely import a lot so know what the HRMC consider illegal to legal content and what can be shipped, otherwise they be out of business long ago.

https://www.up1.co.uk/Details/A1501-Song+of+Saya+~+Saya+no+Uta+-+Hanachirasu+DVD-ROM+Game+Windows+Adult

#143

Hmmm, UK laws are confusing. I like Aussie laws, strict but fairly straightforward and easy to understand :P


I should point out that the offense requirement for child pornography laws in Australia is used so, for example, innocent family pictures of naked children aren't included in the child pornography act (or so a minister once said.) It isn't really there as a social barometer for gauging acceptable levels of depicting sexual behaviour in those perceived to be under 18. From what I understand Australia has a zero-tolerance policy on child pornography, but such policies are always impossible to implement in reality, which is where the offense requirement comes in.

#144

Australian laws are ridiculous; it's even prohibited to watch real-life porn actresses with a flat chest size.
There is no sane reasoning behind this, other than ''They look like children, so we have to prohibit it.''.
''Easy to understand'' my ass, it's propoganda most idiots believe.
I'm not accusing anyone here to be ''an idiot'', this is considered to be a general statement.
I for one don't care shit about what happens in other countries, except for the one I'm living in, and just because of import shenanigans.

Also, no, I won't add in ''in America only'', since it is not just in America the case.
If it's different in someone elses country, too bad, but laws differ, and laws aren't absolute either.
They are a definition of what is ''right'', and what isn't.
And definitions are being made by single individuals; if enough people approve of a definition a person made, then it's deemed ''right''.
Total bullshit, I make up my mind about things myself, rather than believing in every single thing I hear about.
''Think of the imaginary children.'' isn't even valid proof, so I don't even bother if some degenerates (again, not directed to anyone in this forum here, but a general statement of me) think of it as tasteless or ''inappropriate''.
How many people have been sued for this kind of stuff in cases that have gotten public?
Zero, unless you count incidents like that one woman who order such anime stuff and was afraid of speaking in front of a big audience, so she pledge for ''guilty''.
What idiot would give in that easily?
At any rate, this kind of behavior just supports the popular belief of fictional loli content being ''wrong''.
It's time for a change, I'm sick of people not getting their asses up to do something about it, but always keep moaning about this sort of thing.

@Peter Payne

Btw, Peter, I recosidered.
If my financials allow it, I guess I will purchase Shiny Days regardless.
I just picked up my copy of School Days HQ from the customs and you know what, if you say that a reprint of an uncensored version might be possible in the (hopefully near) future, then I would like to encourage this by giving you my money.
In other words, I would buy happily more or less the same product twice, if it means that I get my uncensored version of Shiny Days at a point. :P
I'm serious.

#145

Ridiculous or not, those are the laws we have to abide by. America and Japan are two of the more lax countries in the world when it comes to these sorts of laws, citizens of other countries need to be a bit more careful.


And yeah, it is "easy to understand." Which is appreciated when trying to figure out what you can, and cannot do. As opposed to spending many days wading through 7 pages of legalese only to get the wrong idea and still end up in jail.


"Also, no, I won't add in ''in America only'', since it is not just in America the case."


Your statement without a qualification is a generalisation, and an incorrect one, potentially feeding people with misinformation.


And definitions are being made by single individuals; if enough people approve of a definition a person made, then it's deemed ''right''.


Laws aren't made for the general approval of the public and laws aren't about what is "right". Inmost cases you don't get to vote on laws, and you don't get to approve laws, yourcountry is not a democracy. Yes, America isn't a democracy. It's a Republic lead by a head of State and a Government you elect. They make laws they believe are best for the country, and you vote for the person you think has the best vision and best represents you. If you don't like them feel free to behave how you want, but that's a risk you willingly take yourself, but you should stop acting as if the laws are there to represent your views on what is right and what is not. That will just lead to a lifetime of angst.


How many people have been sued for this kind of stuff in cases that have gotten public?


Child pornography charges relating to cartoon depictions of children In Australia? There've been a few (including someone convicted for having sexy Simpson cartoons on his computer,) and in Britain there was a high profile case last year which tested out new laws brought in 2009.

#146

My statement is as much of a generalization as people claiming fictional loli stuff related to anime to be encouraging rape of minors, of whatever made up crap people believe.

Laws should reflect what the nation itself wants.
The tricky thing about that is that, even if we would vote about this topic now, people would still deem this stuff as ''inappropriate'' due to our social standards.
''CP was always illegal, so it should keep being like that!11''.
Well, maybe we are talking at cross purposes here; I agree that child porn is incredibly wrong and should be deemed illegal, but ficitonal stuff of anime?
Heck, no, that's just restricting people in their respective (albeit admittedly weird) fetishes, but doesn't serve any purpose other than that - restriction.
Without any other additional reason behind it.
I'm living in Germany, btw, and there are a lot of things people here are not so pleased about.
In certain aspects, like with the currently ongoing Grexit, the situation is boiling and a lot of people are annoyed by it, to say the least.
Laws are meant to protect the people that fall under it, but what is unfair about laws is that it is also restricting people in things that are no harm to begin with.
Single people make up their minds about matters, speak out their thoughts and what appeals the most is being approved of by society; this is wrong, in my opinion.
We all are running the risk of getting into trouble, when ordering games that are of questionable nature.
Why stopping there?
I'd rather fight the root of all evil, instead of simply the buds.
I'm idealistic, but not utopic; I can see how difficult this undertaking would be, but in my opinion, it has to happen, at a point.
The time of witch hunting is over since the middle age, after all.

Cases?
Sure, there will always be idiots trying to sue you; being a lawyer is business as well, I guess they will be happy for every single order they get.
How many of these were justified and actually resulted in people going into jail?
Nope, I'm still questioning this, and quite frankly, I don't care the slightest bit about what happens in other countries that I'm not affected of.
This whole thing is simply messed up.
To reiterate, I'm against actual child abusers, but fiction?
Heck, do what you want to these drawings, who cares?
I'm not going around shooting people just for playing GTA after all, exact same thing.
In what world are we living where murdering people in videogames is fine, but playing porn games with content as questionable as the former is deemed a taboo?
This is what I'm criticising; society's double standards. :/

#147

IIRC I think the case in Britian he was done on 3D images of Loli girls, since they looked much more life like.


But with that here in the UK the best advice given is outlined here by the backlash organisation.

http://www.backlash-uk.org.uk/the-law/dangerous-cartoons-act/

#148

He was originally arrested in 2008 for some tomb-raider, loli, pseudo-photograph, lifelike thing, but he was re-arrested in 2012 for having hundreds of anime and manga images. I don't think they would have all been life-like, they seemed to imply they were standard cartoon images. I don't know whether he plead guilty or not though (in Australia, the guy who had Simpson porn on his computer plead innocent and was found guilty.)


http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/10/21/british-court-convicts-man-of-possessing-child-pornography-on-basis-of-stash-of-manga-cartoons/

#149

Ah, the British guy plead guilty so the law hasn't been thoroughly tested yet. Although it doesn't surprise me that he plead guilty.


In Australia the law's been tested and it seems you won't get away with it.

#150

Yes but we still don't have a precedence to cite in future cases. And of all the stuff he was charged for 20 out of his supposed huge collection. So we don't know the specific images related to the case and if they were more life like or if the news had a spin on it. It also can come down to the Judge and his own biases I would have liked it to be a Jury case.


We also had this ridiculous law put in place in regards to On Demand Programming Service for real porn actors. Audiovisual Media Services Regulations 2014

The list of rules governing R18 is long and often vague, but they include:

Urination in various sexual contexts is banned, as is female ejaculation

Spanking, caning and whipping beyond a gentle level are not allowed"Life-endangering activities" such as strangulation and facesitting cannot be carried out

Fisting is banned (if all knuckles are inserted), as are other large insertions

Bound and gagged models may not be featured, as there needs to be a clear way in which the model can withdraw consent


#151

I’m understand the dilemma, besides Japan and the VN community, the rest of the world hates loli content, people already got prosecuted by possessing such material.

So, yes, I’m with Jast on this one, and plan to purchase a digital copy.
I still hates censorship, but the world’s shitty laws do exist.

And I’m sure some anon will bring us a “restoration patch” sooner or later.

#152

I know I’m responding to posts a page or so back now, but…

@Carlos: Sorry to have offended you. I do think you misunderstood me a little, though. Kinky content is not my objection here; I have freaking Starless on pre-order, which makes most of Shiny Days look like an episode of Full House. My issue, and the issue I think JAST was wise to take into account, is whether or not the content is legally defensible. If the publisher thinks it might get them sued or thrown in jail for distributing it, I don’t want it in my possession, period. The same thing would be true if my country had a law against games sold in purple boxes – even if I viewed such a prohibition as ridiculous, I would steer clear of buying purple-boxed games, because it just isn’t worth the risk.

@animeloverxX93: Understood, and I want to stress that I do totally respect your opinion and can appreciate your disappointment. (That may not have come out so well earlier.) I’m not a lolicon at all, but I have enough unusual turn-ons of my own (I find pregnancy crazy-sexy, for example) that I can imagine my reaction to that content getting cut in a game I was looking forward to as slapping my forehead, putting my head on the desk, and mumbling, “Are you kidding me…?” What I was trying to get at was that Shiny Days has a ton of cool stuff going for it despite the cut – not just the limited edition bonuses, but a really great game with good characters, good artwork, and full animation. It sounds like you took that into account, too, and I’m glad you’re supporting the game despite your understandable frustration over what was left out.

It would be a shame for a release as cool as Shiny Days to flop because of a choice made out of legal necessity, and it would be a bigger shame yet for JAST to avoid licensing any game with any problematic content at all in the future because they decide it isn’t worth the shitstorm it generates among the fanbase. That’s what Peter Payne seemed to be implying about halfway through this thread, and I really hope he’ll reconsider that stance if the game gets enough support – either vocally here or in game purchases.

#153

Obviously they can't handle release uncut series so maybe they should just stick to things they feel safe with. I'd rather that then cut content.

#154

"unusual turn-ons of my own (I find pregnancy crazy-sexy, for example)"


Then you won't be disappointed in some of the endings in Starless :P


I think what should influence Peter's decision is the sales. If the game gets the fan-patch and sells well he knows the practice is working enough to warrant it in cases like these. I'm sure he is interested to see what people will be saying after the release and how the sales go and be comparing them to School Days to measure the success.


The problem with the fan base stemmed from them not getting all the content and I think that issue is dealt with, except for a few who don't get it or are skeptical towards JAST method or think they are becoming another MoeNovel.


#155

Based on what I've seen, the unofficial official patch concept confuses people. They don't get it. All they see is JAST saying they're censoring the two games and expecting fan groups to pick up the slack. That's the reason I wrote that article. At least people who read it will get the full story.

#156

Your article helped quell some of the animosity about it for the Shiny Days fans.

Without being direct people are still confused by the concept since it hasn't been done before and JAST had some previous issues regarding censoring before.

PP quelled my concern for Starless, which was what I was relaying in the discussion threads on MG and HF.

Just gotta have

#157

@Maou Thanks!


![](upload://cowUhcR2FOlcQXAvAMRt3QygGUY.jpeg)


#158

@Carlos and @Jacksprat, yes, we're trying to not leave low-hanging fruit for prosecutors who don't know the difference between Dragonball and La Blue Girl (or whatever) by making sure the problematic content is not actually on the disc or in the file that we're selling. And in both cases (more for Starless than for Shiny), these are the actions we've been asked to take by the original Japanese companies, who are of course nervous about any problems that would affect them, any R***lay style crises and all that. This is our thinking anyway.


I promise we won't do something like this again. Because of fan sensitivity, we might walk away from a borderline game, but I swear I will try to never have to make content changes again.

#159

It makes me sad that people have made you feel that you should walk away from games with content that could be added back with just a simple 'unofficial' patch.. :( I feel like some games wont get translated if you walk away from them because of this. I hope Shiny Days does well, I'd love to see you bring over the other days games like Cross Days Island Days. Keep up the good work JAST. I will continue to support you guys so long as you keep bringing over games I have interests in.

#160

@animeloverxX93

A little late in replying but hey I had life to attend to and just now managed to read the responses. People that register on this forum are likely people that will pay? While that may be true to some extent the thing immediately following that leaves me skeptical. "because, if they could simply pirate the game as they desire, why would they even bother signing in here". If they could pirate? So you're saying that if you or they knew how to pirate or where to pirate you/they wouldn't be here anymore?

I am in no position to tell others what they would most likely do and what they wouldn't? You do realize that my wording did not particularly single any one person out nor did I tell anyone what they could or couldn't do. I merely stated a fact that people who get upset over an issue like this often will still play the game through less legal methods. I never said all people do this and I wasn't just speaking about the people on this thread. Also the whole what I think isn't important thing if what I say isn't important why do you waste your time responding to it? Admittedly we all have our own opinions and there is nothing wrong with that.

In regards to your last sentence or two you say that people are upset because it isn't uncensored? Well from my knowledge it's not a matter of content failing to be uncensored but more an issue of the content being cut. Aside from the cut content the game is completely uncensored. In regards to not knowing what was censored if you bothered to read this forum you would realize they've told us what is being cut. While I'm nitpicking now and am aware that yes having cut content is a form of censorship it helps to clarify that you are not talking about mosaics and rather are discussing content that was cut for various reasons. It is also quite possible that there will be ways around cut content...as a particular article endorsing Jast's decision hints at.

As for being a smuggy little brat while yes I may come off as a bit condescending at times I'm speaking as someone who has seen how these decisions often play out. If you are really so blind as to see that this not just for our benefit but more a matter of making sure they or their translators don't get into legal trouble then there is no hope regarding this incident. The last thing that you as an employer would want is to get your employee in legal trouble accidentally or doing something you are paying them to do. One also has to remember that whoever is doing the translation can take whatever stance they want on it as they are the one doing the work and it's their opinion and there is nothing wrong with people having opinions.

@Carlos Hernandez

I am the problem? Pray tell what problem that may be? Is supporting the industry that I love with money somehow going to cause JAST to close their doors or die out because they don't have the funds necessary to pay their employees?

I do not care for School Days...I'd seen the anime couldn't stand any of the characters. When it got licensed I didn't have much interest in it but I still bought it on release. I played the game still didn't care for it. This is my own personal opinion I simply don't care for the 'Days' vns. Will I be picking this game up? Honestly, most likely, might not be right away but I'll probably pick it up eventually. I have no beef with people who like the series I can see some of the appeal to it, it just didn't really keep my interest all that much.

I am not going to pick up the game in the hopes a fan-patch or some such sort is released to re-add the missing changes. If there is great if there isn't well whatever. The content missing itself in the context that it is in game is very iffy in most legal senses (the u.s. is not their only place of business). It would be a huge risk in a lot of places in the world for the game with said content to be released...all it takes is one customs agent to be offended. Admittedly I do expect a restoration patch of sorts to likely get released eventually for it. If one bothers to actually sit down and read the article by sanahtlig their worries will hopefully be put to rest. There is a point when taking a stance on censorship can actually be taken too far. This stance a lot of people have with Shiny Days could easily cause Jast to simply not look at this type of content ever again and will ignore anything with questionable content.


@everyone

With that out of the way I think people should see how these issues are handled before making judgments...I don't remember which translator from which company it was but this type of thing got someone into legal trouble. Regardless of whether or not we think it should is not the issue; the issue is that people can be prosecuted for this. If you do not want to see this happen then feel free to try and fight the system wherever you are in whatever manner you like...just don't expect everyone to have the same opinion. In looking at this I think Peter and company happen to be handling this rather well all things considered. The fans are getting a bit vicious and I think they/we all need to just calm down and wait it out. If you don't want to play the game because of censorship then don't. Play the wait and see game and see if all ends up slightly better than you may think or learn to dodge the brimstone at the end of the world.


I think we need to all just take a step back and take a breather. Let's wait and see what happens.