I’m not a fan of futarari at all. Really young ages don’t bother me too much (if it’s consensual), but futanari and yaoi repulse me. Of course, others are entitled to their interests, and I’m certainly not going to look down on them for having such interests. I don’t really like yuri, but I can stomach it if the girls involved are really cute. I always prefer a male/female relationship, though.
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
I wish people would just accept who they are... People really are screwed up psychically these days.
I don't think it's that people are more "screwed up" these days. Society's just more open and tolerant now, so the expression is allowed to occur. Cross-dressing in public 300 years ago would have gotten you thrown in jail, at the very least, and maybe even lynched. Thus such impulses were repressed (whether rightfully or wrongfully is a matter of debate).
As for accepting ‘who you are’, iirc there have been studies done showing that many transexuals were born with brain patterns more typical of the sex they WANTED to be than the sex they originally APPEARED to be. So you could say they ARE trying to accept who they are.
I’m a strange girl, but I have no doubt that I am a girl. I am absolutely not a man in a woman’s body. It must be pretty miserable to be one of those kids who has felt like they were in the wrong-sex body from as soon as they were old enough to understand the difference.
I sometimes think of myself that I’m a mix between the two genders, but I’m glad to be male.
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
Back then you never lived long, so most people never had time for weird development.
Aha...so you're saying that people nowadays are more "screwed up in the head" because we live longer? I don't think so. Homosexuality and other abnormal psychological patterns (I mean no negative connontation) generally manifest themselves before adulthood. Alzheimer's and senility in general are the exception, rather than the rule. Then you have to consider practices in the past that actually LED to mental disorders, such as playing with mercury and drinking from lead pipes. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
Anyway, I'd like to keep this topic focused on b-games at least, seeing as it is a poll. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Also amusing was the fact that there were twice as many toddler-cons as oba-cons. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Does Toddler means 'Screw a little kid'??
There definetlly are some terribly sick people in this world (i must say that it made me sick Jewel Knights just withe the blonde girl, and she was 10. i cant even think about a 2 or 3 year old.........i cant ralk anymore.....)
I do find the concept rather repulsive…but it is a purely fictional interest. Why does that make people who like it “terribly sick?” Because it’s different from your interests? There’s plenty of people that think anyone who would look at any “cartoon porn” is “terribly sick” (my roommate is one of them). What makes them looking down on us any different than us looking down on toddler-cons? Or is there some sort of hierarchy of sickness and perversion?
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-09-2005).]
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I do find the concept rather repulsive...but it is a purely fictional interest. Why does that make people who like it "terribly sick?" Because it's different from your interests? There's plenty of people that think anyone who would look at any "cartoon porn" is "terribly sick" (my roommate is one of them). What makes them looking down on us any different than us looking down on toddler-cons? Or is there some sort of hierarchy of sickness and perversion? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img][This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-09-2005).]
I understand your room-mate (i hope it's nothing like HdR, or should i say... GOOD FOR U... if u ar in that kink of situation... i dont know [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]) Says that anybody who sees 'porn cartoon' is sick, because that's a reason of likes-deslikes, but having sex or anything like that with a mere child?
my friend, that is sick for all kind of people. what i cant undestand is 'how can them get excited by watching something like that' and what gets more in my nerve, and trully i hope i'm monstruosly wrong is the thinking that maybe they would do it in real life with some kids. i can understand that people, really, and i trully hope that the people who voted that in that poll, where just kidding....
'kid-porn' is 'kid porn' in real life, in cartoons, in black-and-white, in colours, in Argentina, in China, in Rowanda and in everyother place in the world (or at least i hope so...)
In some ways, toddler-pictures bother me less than loli. Because it’s gone so far away from ‘normal’ in my mind that I don’t take it seriously anymore. Innocent that I am, I find it hard to imagine most people, even people with a taste for little girls, trying to have sex with a toddler. So then, in my brain, it is clearly “just a picture”. The person in question might as well be screwing a teddy bear. It’ll cause about the same reaction to me. “How dumb”, and move to the next image.
I am aware that there are supposedly some people who really have done inappropriate things to babies and toddlers. I can’t imagine why. But as far as I know, that’s very, very rare. And I don’t suspect people asking for pictures of Chibi-Chibi naked to really want to do anything resembling that in real life.
The images of Hisui (is that her name?) in Jewel Knights bugged me a lot more. I’ve only seen what was linked in a review, but it did not look pretty. So I find it a little disturbing if someone enjoyed watching what looks like a little girl being molested and being in pain. I’m surprised that didn’t get cut like many other underage scenes have been from English games. It’s too close to reality for me. There are too many little girls who are in that sort of pain and too many men who enjoy inflicting it. If she’d looked happy, it wouldn’t bug me so much.
Now, obviously, looking at that sort of picture does not mean you actually go out and rape children. I can draw Chibi-Usa being dismembered and raped with a spear and that doesn’t make me an insane child murderer. (I haven’t drawn that, mind. Ew. ) But I find the image disturbing enough that I don’t like looking at it and will look slightly askance at someone who grooves on it.
Where both characters are clearly underage and fooling around, my alarms don’t go off. That can be really cute. But big man / little girl creeps me out.
quote:
Originally posted by The Unholy Avenger:
I understand your room-mate (i hope it's nothing like HdR, or should i say... GOOD FOR U... if u ar in that kink of situation... i dont know [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]) Says that anybody who sees 'porn cartoon' is sick, because that's a reason of likes-deslikes, but having sex or anything like that with a mere child?
my friend, that is sick for all kind of people. what i cant undestand is 'how can them get excited by watching something like that' and what gets more in my nerve, and trully i hope i'm monstruosly wrong is the thinking that maybe they would do it in real life with some kids. i can understand that people, really, and i trully hope that the people who voted that in that poll, where just kidding....
'kid-porn' is 'kid porn' in real life, in cartoons, in black-and-white, in colours, in Argentina, in China, in Rowanda and in everyother place in the world (or at least i hope so...)
Ah, but people who get off on cartoon porn are no-lifes who get off on pixels. They can't find a girl in real life, and they're so demented that they turn to pervy cartoon girls for their kicks. They want to have sex with something that doesn't even exist. How screwed up is that? I wouldn't be surprised if people like that stalked girls on the Internet and lured them to their house...
Excuse my sarcasm, but see my point? It's easy to view both interests negatively, as long as you don't happen to have it. But I think it's wrong to automatically make the connection that what people think/view in fiction translates to real life as well. I'm sure it's true for a very small minority, but it's not fair to look down on an entire group of people for the actions of a small minority.
And no, I'm not in that situation...because I don't let on to people that I play these games. The above reasoning is exactly why. I'm not going to risk my reputation just to try and change people's opinion. Luckily, in this situation, I can argue openly because I'm not a toddler-con.
Edit: I seemed to have misinterpeted your HdR remark. Actually, I kind of AM in that sort of situation. Not with my roommate, but yesterday I went into the bathroom and a girl walked right out of the shower in our male-only cluster of rooms. As I recall, I was annoyed, not happy. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] I've also had girls walk in while I was dressing in the bathroom.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-09-2005).]
This kind of poll will never get acurate results, the fact is that anyone who admits to really liking loli’s (rather than “tolerating them”)is taking a MAJOR RISK. That is even taking into account that B-Gamers are less sensitive to young-looking girls. Responses already on this thread show how quickly people can become inflamed on this topic. I’m guessing that the orininal poll that this thread is based on was fairly anonymous.
Obviously there is enogh of a market for it in Japan to support quite a number of games with that theme… it would be naive to tink that there is a similar percentage outside of Japan who are interested in loli games.
Personaly I like loli characters (the “teen” categorgy coming in second) and would appreciate a loli game to be translated (yeah I know, no chance of that happening anytime soon… it’ll be quicker to learn japanese)… provided it’s not a “Dark Game”.
The original poll was indeed anonymous (this forum has no such feature, unfortunately). However, plenty of people also posted in the thread, and many of them affirmed their teen and loli tendencies. Then again, the forum seems fairly liberal, and flaming/trolling is quickly dealt with by the moderators.
I posted this poll more to find out about the interests of individual members, rather than obtain accurate results, necessarily. If they want to lie, then shame on them for being dishonest, but that’s their prerogative, I guess. I would hope people could post their opinions honestly on this board, though. The PP forum does have a reputation for maturity and tolerance.
BTW, who’s becoming inflamed? As far as I can see, this discussion has been the model of civility. My simple disagreement with The Unholy Avenger has by no means descended into bickering and flames. Well, not yet at least.
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
BTW, who's becoming inflamed? As far as I can see, this discussion has been the model of civility. My simple disagreement with The Unholy Avenger has by no means descended into bickering and flames. Well, not yet at least. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
I didn't mean that there was any flaming going on... I was refering to the passionaye unwavering belief that those who could be attacted to lolis must be "sick" or have something wrong with them. But I agree that this board is very tolerant as has been the thread... which is the reason "I came out of the closet" so to speak.
But still I don't think many loli fans out there lurking will put themselves out and make a post as to their interest...
If this was a less hospitable board, there would be far fewer responses (or none) that indicates an interest in lolis.
Honestly I think that people who like "lolis" have a far greater representaion amongst B-gamers than in the overall population simply due to the fact that this is one of the few (legal) medias
which apply to their tastes. I know that's why I became a fan of B-games.
I think The Unholy Avenger was more disgusted with toddler-con-ism (and a new word is coined), which is just a segment of the overall lolicon category.
I don’t know about your assertion that lolicons have a greater representation among b-gamers than in other “hentai” genres, but as far as I know lolicon material is legal across all “anime” genres in the U.S.: H-manga, H-doujinshi, H-anime, and H-games. It’s all considered “virtual pornography” under American law, and thus is legal under the recent Supreme Court ruling, which states that the depiction of minors in pornography is not unlawful as long as real and actual minors were not used and/or harmed in its production. Viewing of real child porn, of course, is terribly wrong as well as unlawful.
BTW, I do assume that when you say “overall population” when you mean “the population of Japanese-erotica enthusiasts.” Otherwise your assertion doesn’t make sense.
Personally, I’d like to see that Chinese game that GC has. Both of them are nice, actually. I don’t play something I can’t understand, though.
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Where both characters are clearly underage and fooling around, my alarms don't go off. That can be really cute. But big man / little girl creeps me out.
Personally, I believe in quality, not moralism. If an erogame is TRULY good, I can tolerate anything (in accordance with my particular tastes, of course).
Don't mix (erotic) fantasies with Reality. Real pedophilia is PURE EVIL (even Jesus says so). However, I'm not a saint, and my Evil Side finds the Loli genre very gratifying.
Therefore, if an erogame is good, and I've both time and money, I will buy it, Loli or not, even if I don't have NEVER acquired (not even in Demo form) true Loli or true pedophile erogames.
Can we please redefine toddler, loli, and teen?
It has been mixed up in the last posts, I have the impression.
From the original poll:
Toddler (0-4)
Loli (5-12)
Teen (13-17)
Adult (18+)
My idea of loli is somewhat different; I basically consider 15 and below loli (in other words, below the age of consent), and about 12-15 as “attractive” loli. The definition of toddler is irrelevant to me, personally, since I’m not into anything close to that age range.
quote:
Originally posted by Coolgamer:
Honestly, I don't really mind the whole hermaphrodite and "Ranma" themes...
If they don't mind yuri, I don't see why someone would object to substituting a 'half-male' for one of the female partners. I don't care what the male character looks like in a standard hetero scene.
quote:
Transsexual- Someone who acts like they are of the opposite gender, but have a normal body. Dress-up is common.
Here I think you're confusing cross-dressing with something that implies a commitment to alter one's body to that of the opposite sex.
[This message has been edited by perigee (edited 01-10-2005).]
’Fueling’ my flamethrower to fire against Dark_shiki (Nah, i lied, i came in peace)
Well, i dont hate people who likes loli (but for me, loli is from 10 to 14, below that, is still toddler) but i cant understand how can anybody say that a ‘Sakura card captor’ type of girl is a ‘turn-on’. i understand if u tell me ‘she’s KAWAII!!!’ but there’s a big difference between that and telling me that Sakura is sexy or something like that…
it’s also hard to think that just because u say that sakura is a turn-on u will go through life stalking, kiddnaping, and raping real little kids. But just the fact that u sexualy enjoy (in dreams, of course, there is no way u can have sex with a cartoon, and if u can, tell us how, i still want to 'get to know each other’with Eliana from Kango) seeing Sakura having sex. that’s just too much to me to understand, but, of course, that doesnt make u a better or worse person, it’s just that i can’t take it (it’s just me, i cant hate u just because u like it, of course, as long as u dont do it on real life, if u do, then i can assure u that i’ll kick the sh** out of u all by myself)
i hope that i made myself clear… i’m going to sleep, i have a terrible headache…
I think it’s possible to enjoy kawaii images of kids without feeling any sexual attraction. If it weren’t, we wouldn’t be able to look upon toddlers as being cute in real life. Unfortunately, because of the strong anti-pedophile taboo, it’s difficult to transfer that non-sexual appreciation to b-games. I avoid anything with hentai overtones involving kids, but I still enjoy anime like Azumanga Daioh because children are cute in appearance and behavior.