He gave me his personal word, as did a few moderators of this forum, that this would not happen again. That’s why I’m upset. Betrayal is not pretty.
Also, when you lock a thread with “Hello, all. The torches are out in force again, I see ^_^” like Peter did, that’s not the best way to deal with concerned customers. In fact, dismissing them like that and acting like its a joke pisses us off even more.
Again, it’s being blown way out of control. You make it sound like his intent all along was to lie to you, cheat you out of your money with his dirty stinking lies. I already said, he apologized, he offered a refund. If he’s trying to correct his mistakes by going onto the message board and making a public apology, and offering your money back… What really happened? He made a mistake. The company made a friggin mistake. You know what? Get over it. If you don’t like it, get your money back and go away. What more does this company have to do to appease you? Get on it’s knees at beg? I think people often forget that these things are run by people, and you know what they say, nobody is perfect. Shit happens, all you can do is try better next time, even if the mistake is the same one as it was before. Sometimes it takes more than once, but thank you for understanding umare. You’re loyalty and general understanding is just grand.
That’s an interesting sentence. Let’s see: my first order of a PP game was Snow Drop, in 2001. When was yours?
This second sentence is even more interesting. Let’s see: I ordered Kazokei. Are you telling me that, as a customer who bought a product, I have no right to voice my displeasure with the product I bought?
Easy. Get a goddamn uncensor patch released. At least that confronts the issue directly.
You don’t need to get sarcastic with me, I’m not your enemy unless you make me one.
At this point, the company needs to offer a CG patch to fix the censorship. Once they do that, I’ll start to believe they are trustworthy.
In this quote, we see how making up statistics in a vague attempt to prove a point almost always fails.
Oh, I was upset, and I think I posted about the matter enough, including Shingo’s words on a similar situation (light’s) where I was pretty vocal as well. However, being upset and remaining upset are two different things, and remaining upset doesn’t make anything progress. Two scenarii were possible:
- I was upset, Peter didn’t do anything (or enough) for me not to be upset any longer: I move on, swear PP off, and don’t do business with them any longer, or only very carefully (such as only buying a product long after it’s released, after having read tons of reviews, and waited for patches).
- I was upset, Peter did something I consider enough to be forgiven: I forgive him, and keep doing business with him, though with a mental note about what happened.
Sure, Peter lied to us, and that’s upsetting but, then, there are plenty of stores, and companies including erogee companies, that had upset me in the past, so I know from experience remaining upset doesn’t lead anywhere. It’s that simple.
I never turned around once. If you actually read what I said I said I understand both sides. I UNDERSTAND why peter chose to edit it and I also understand the complaints. My point is this is getting out of control. You’re not happy, we get it. And what exactly is your point in your edit? That I changed my stance? That I switched sides? I’m still where I originally was. It’s just my annoyance is now focused on the overly irritatingly persistent complainers this time. I still believe some complaints are in order, but I also believe that this isn’t the way to do it. Bashing the company like this is unnecessary. Especially since some of you aren’t as honest as you claim to be.
Ok, narg, that was 9000 different shades of win. Cheers!
You’re not at all concerned that the head of a company has lied directly to its customers not once, but twice now? Someone who really should know better?
And just who isn’t being honest, Conan?
My first game was Desire. I forgot when I bought it though. And I apologize to the people who are generally regulars here. I was more of talking to the 4chan raiders.
… Am I speaking to brick walls here?
The more you repeat this list, the more likely it is that someone will pick up on it. Your only possible reason for continuing to go on about it is that you WANT every one of those games canned forever. Do you even notice that I’m carefully not quoting the names?
If it is your intention to make PP have to throw things out of their back catalog to save the business, congratulations, you’re making progress. If you were upset by the EOCS fiasco, why are you attempting to compound it?
If legacy titles are affected, perhaps more people would realize that this censorship is a problem and push back against it. But that’s not happening here.
What the hell happened to all you people complaining that they were going to ban rape games in Japan?
Oh, but when they censor a game here, that’s dandy! I have no complaints, the game still works, so what’s the problem?
THEY WILL START CENSORING MORE.
Give them an inch. Go ahead. I will laugh at you when they start banning your favorite games, your favorite sexual fetishes, your various materials. I will laugh because YOU LET IT HAPPEN.
We don’t have a personal, friend-to-friend relationship, you know? We have a business relationship. Well, sure, he lied, and I know it. And? Of course, that would justify me not willing to do business with him any longer, and that shouldn’t be a valid reason enough for me to unconditionally desire not to have any kind of business with him any longer. There are reasons why I would do business with him, and there are reasons why I would not. Weighing each side, and taking my decision accordingly is the way I do business.
I mean, heck, I already own the Japanese game, and am able to play it whenever I want! Isn’t that a reason weighing against me buying the game? Did I however buy it? I did, because I had my reasons and they outweighed the reasons why I wouldn’t buy it. So, Peter lied, twice, and I was pretty upset about the matter. And? It’s just another reason weighing against me buying the game (and keep doing business with JAST/PP). It may weigh a lot, but it doesn’t mean it’s so heavy it absolutely cannot be balanced by the reasons for me buying the game (and keep doing business with JAST/PP). I don’t know your reasons, and I don’t care. With Peter’s decision to unconditionally refund Kazokei, he balanced back in my opinion in favour of me doing business with him. That’s all.
“Desire” is from C’sWare, not PP…
It’s not the same old story. It’s close (very close) but different enough that I believe him when he says “… and I did the same thing again, I’m so sorry, I swear it’s not on purpose”.
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With XC3, initially he dishonestly attempted to cover it up. This time, he owned up to it immediately.
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With XC3, the claims that the game was 100% uncensored and fully uncensored and so forth were all over the place, when it was just not true. Here, the claims were omitted almost everywhere, only occuring in one place.
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I believe him when he says the incorrect ‘we never said it was uncensored’ statement was because they didn’t realize they’d missed a spot. I believe this because it’s too inept and transparent to be a deliberate lie. Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity. Peach Princess is not Sony.
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Last time, he extended the ‘get your money back’ offer only to one forumgoer, and only after he repeatedly complained. This time he proactively offered it to anyone, even if you play the game anyway. This weighs heavily against it being a gimmick, because the potential downside to making this offer is enormous.
Now, if foolishness like this continues to happen … then it will cease to matter whether I believe his explanations; past a certain point, it doesn’t matter anymore whether it’s maliciousness or incompetence. But we’re not there yet. I’m extremely disappointed, but I’m still going to get the game eventually, and I’m 100% sure it will be awesome despite being censored in this way (and even though the two-bra picture is rather silly).
Yeah, that was me he offered the money back to, I believe. I had a different account back then. So you see, I do have a vested interest in this.
So, your plan is to try and force PP into a high-profile obscenity case so that you can push back against censorship laws in the west?
An interesting, if extremely high-risk, strategy. However, it won’t actually work if PP decides to cut their losses and fold rather than fight the courts you’re attempting to bring down on their heads. 
Er, the content bans being proposed in Japan are considerably more alarming than a few minor CG alterations. In addition, that’s a strike at the source material. If push comes to shove, I can go play the original Japanese titles if the English market went to Hell. Not that I want it to, but at least the option is there.
Look, this “censoring” in the eroge localization industry is nothing new. It’s happened every single time they balk away from a title that they would’ve localized, except it might draw undue attention due to lolicon, rape, guro, whatever. What you propose, that Family Project never have been licensed…that’s a form of censoring too! Our freedom of expression is under attack constantly, we just don’t realize it. Your solution doesn’t contribute to freedom of expression; it just exacerbates the problem even further.
I too am concerned that this decision sets a precedent for upcoming games, particularly Nitroplus titles. I too am concerned that these titles will be altered in an unacceptable way. But drawing an arbitrary line in the sand, saying “Ye shall not pass!”, and refusing to budge–simply on principle alone and without any consideration of the practical circumstances–seems silly to me. And well, if that is your viewpoint, then there’s not much left to discuss. You’ve asserted yourself, and you’re not willing to budge. Other than fan the flames of antagonism, there’s not much else you can accomplish.
The answer seems rather obvious; the question seems almost rhetorical to me. They’re going for a gradual change in policy that will effect change without the incredible practical hassle of recalls or retroactive censoring. If they could snap their fingers and all previously released titles suddenly conformed to current standards, they’d do it. Simply ceasing sales of these previous games, however, would just be shooting themselves in the foot. Besides, this isn’t simply a matter of current legality. Just look at the Max Hardcore case. Law enforcement kept at him until the law was changed so they could finally arrest and convict him. Even if the law wasn’t a problem, there’s consequences simply for getting on the wrong side of public opinion. Look what happened in Japan after the Rapelay incident. No laws were broken, but the industry is facing a crisis. Why? Because retailers got spooked. JAST is fairly self sufficient, but they have no desire to alienate outlets such as Rightstuf and AnimeNation. Censoring current games doesn’t address the problem entirely, but it shows they’re willing to adapt with the times, rather than pull a Max Hardcore or Pirate Bay and stick their middle fingers out at the world.
As for the borderline manga, I’d say JAST is a much more prominent target. They “make” and sell porn games, and for the most part only porn games. They’re an American company, so they’re easy to go after. Games are much more interactive than manga, and thus more likely to provoke an outcry from people who think representations of sexual abuse could facilitate real life sexual abuse. Finally, Rapelay was also a game. That makes other games likely to be persecuted simply by mental association, as well as correlative association (if it happened once, it’s more likely to happen again).
I’m wondering something.
When PP wants to release a new game, is there an “anti loli control” from whatever organisation ?
?
B173 M3 and umarekawari, enough is enough. There is persistence, and there is beating a dead horse. Posting once a day for a year or more about how you feel is persistence. Posting 20 or more times a day about it isn’t. (Especially since you are mostly saying the same thing in your posts!) You’ve made it extremely evident how angry you are, and that’s your right. However, complaining like this to your fellow forum members is only going to irritate, because we are sick of hearing it. We are all adults here, and can make up our own damned mind about how we feel about what has happened. (In fact, umarekawari, your “I will laugh” remark smacks of trying to force your views on others, giving the impression of “believe as I do, or you’ll be sorry”.) If you really feel you still need to vent, why don’t you take a more direct route and e-mail or PM the company representatives? Better yet, start organizing people so that the asinine laws JAST/GC/PP are worried about are overturned, and the company wouldn’t even have to worry about censoring images. That would be a much better use of your time and energy, in my opinion.